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Thread: DOU 45, DOT 45, SWP 45 question?

  1. #1
    Senior Member PMKS's Avatar
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    Default DOU 45, DOT 45, SWP 45 question?

    Acquaintance got a 98K "Post War" from Samco.

    As described to me, have not seen yet:

    Receiver was not ground
    DOU45
    German markings, on receiver and barrel
    has a bayo lug, stamped bands with holes for kriegs screws, but has a band spring. Stock has cupped buttplate and stock has regular takedown disk, post-war "winter trigger guard"
    Bolt matches receiver, trigger guard has no serial.

    What is the story on these Samco Czech 98K's?
    A search revealed posts on gunboards where a guy got a unground SWP45 from Samco.

    If they are postwar made, why German markings?
    seems like a good deal at $279 if the receivers are not ground, better than getting a RC?
    Last edited by PMKS; 07-05-2012 at 11:25 PM. Reason: mistake

  2. #2
    Moderator˛ Pisgah's Avatar
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    Interesting rifles and usually well worth $279 or so. After the war the Czechoslovakians took back control of the German small arms industry within their borders. This included quantities of Kar.98k parts. Starting some time postwar they began to assemble new rifles using these leftover parts. It appears they had a number of unused wartime barrels with German markings along with unused receivers already marked with 3 letter codes and dates. They used the swp 45 and dou.45 receivers as they were but removed the 4 from dot 1944's and added the 5 to create dot 1945's. Later they also created the tgf code. They mixed these late war parts with some newly manufactuured parts, most notably semi-Kriegs stocks and the one peice Winter triggerguards without a separate floorplate. These rifles are generally easy to spot because of those differences as well as having Czech rampant lion type firing proofs, "Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka.." siderail markings, and a different type of serializing which used up to 4 digit serial numbers and typically an upper case seral number letter suffix.
    WTB/WTT: (1)late E/H marked bcd stock cut for machine gun barrel; (2)unnumbered E/359 inspected armourer stock; (3)transitional late unnumbered type dot stock which uses bandspring and has bayo mount but no cleaning rod hole; (4)unnumbered byf standard stock as typically found on some byf 44 K and L block rifles; (5)unnumbered E/H bnz standard stock as typically found on bnz.4 and bnz 44 N, O, and P block rifles; (6)unnumbered flat buttplate with inspection marking (armourer flat buttplate);

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    Senior Member tsmgguy's Avatar
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    I have a new condition Czech 98k purchased from SAMCO in the mid 1990s that is exactly as pisgah describes, except that the top of the receiver has been neatly scrubbed - there are no markings there. It has full Czech loin proofs with no evidence that these were stamped over German proofs.

    In their brochure, SAMCO described this rifle as having been "made in Chechoslovakia, under German control". I expected German codes and proofs, but there are none of these anywhere. It's still a very nice rifle, in unissued condition, so I kept it.

    Quality seems excellent, with none of the crude late war millings and castings seen elsewhere. The finish is a very deep blue, which is nicely done. This rifle has stamped bands with a milled band spring, and a milled bayonet mount. The mount has the cleaning rod hole, but there's no channel in the stock for the rod.
    Wanted: K98 Dou-42 bolt 5235b, and Port. bayonet G19383

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    I ordered one from Samco and specified a marked one but didn't get it. It was scrubbed on top but nicely blued, except for the barrel forward of the stock. It had been buffed almost like chrome, still had polishing rouge under the stock. Never can tell what you may get from them, didn't answer emails and gave me no tracking number.

  5. #5
    Senior Member PMKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spikester View Post
    I ordered one from Samco and specified a marked one but didn't get it. It was scrubbed on top but nicely blued, except for the barrel forward of the stock. It had been buffed almost like chrome, still had polishing rouge under the stock. Never can tell what you may get from them, didn't answer emails and gave me no tracking number.
    Poster over on gunboards said he had to pay $50 extra to get an un-scrubbed one.

    Reason I asked in the initial post is that some of these rifles were obviously wartime made with the German markings and such, why were they never delivered, were they found in the factories after the war?

    I have a similar rifle I picked up with a trashed stock as project in the early 90's, no import marks but scrubbed receiver and post-war trigger guard.
    http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread....roject-ID-help

  6. #6
    Moderator˛ Pisgah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PMKS View Post
    ...Reason I asked in the initial post is that some of these rifles were obviously wartime made with the German markings and such, why were they never delivered, were they found in the factories after the war?
    [/url]
    Unless you find one with Nazi firing proofs and wartime type serial numbering then not manufactured wartime. There is a big difference between a rifle assembled during the war during German occupation and a rifle assembled postwar by the Czechs using a mix of unused wartime parts and postwar manufactured parts. Many of the barrels on these were likely completed late in the war but not used. Same thing for the receivers, most were completed during the war and stamped with codes/years but never removed from boxes. Postwar the Czechs manfactured missing items like stocks and winter triggerguards then assembled rifles which were mostly a mix of wartime and postwar parts.
    WTB/WTT: (1)late E/H marked bcd stock cut for machine gun barrel; (2)unnumbered E/359 inspected armourer stock; (3)transitional late unnumbered type dot stock which uses bandspring and has bayo mount but no cleaning rod hole; (4)unnumbered byf standard stock as typically found on some byf 44 K and L block rifles; (5)unnumbered E/H bnz standard stock as typically found on bnz.4 and bnz 44 N, O, and P block rifles; (6)unnumbered flat buttplate with inspection marking (armourer flat buttplate);

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    Senior Member PMKS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pisgah View Post
    Unless you find one with Nazi firing proofs and wartime type serial numbering then not manufactured wartime. There is a big difference between a rifle assembled during the war during German occupation and a rifle assembled postwar by the Czechs using a mix of unused wartime parts and postwar manufactured parts. Many of the barrels on these were likely completed late in the war but not used. Same thing for the receivers, most were completed during the war and stamped with codes/years but never removed from boxes. Postwar the Czechs manfactured missing items like stocks and winter triggerguards then assembled rifles which were mostly a mix of wartime and postwar parts.
    Thanks for the info,
    So a DOT 45 receiver has to be Post-War made? whereas as DOU45 and SWP45 could be wartime production?

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    Moderator˛ Pisgah's Avatar
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    AFAIK the thinking on the dot 1945 receivers is that the Czechs removed the last 4 from dot 1944 receivers then restamped that position with a 5. I have no idea why they would have done this.
    WTB/WTT: (1)late E/H marked bcd stock cut for machine gun barrel; (2)unnumbered E/359 inspected armourer stock; (3)transitional late unnumbered type dot stock which uses bandspring and has bayo mount but no cleaning rod hole; (4)unnumbered byf standard stock as typically found on some byf 44 K and L block rifles; (5)unnumbered E/H bnz standard stock as typically found on bnz.4 and bnz 44 N, O, and P block rifles; (6)unnumbered flat buttplate with inspection marking (armourer flat buttplate);

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