Third Party Press

German helmet lot numbers 1935-1945 ongoing research

There are at least two theories about this. p.23

Examples of helmets (especially ET M35s) have been observed with an extra number or letter stamped on the rear neck guard in the vicinity of the lot number. The extra numbers are often of a different size and font compared to the lot number itself and oddly situated. In some cases (ET M40) Roman numerals were also used. It is speculated that these extra characters are not part of the lot number proper and were not put there in error.

One possible explanation for the extra characters is what L. Baer refers to as "test helmets" (Baer p.443). Before a batch of steel planchets (a smelting) was accepted by the War Ministry, (even before they were stamped into helmet shells) one or two planchets were selected to be formed into helmet shells; a "pre-test" of the smelting.

"From each smelting lot, one planchet out of every 100 will be tested, a minimum of two planchets being selected. These test planchets will be rolled in Thale and then at least four helmets will be drawn out of the sheets. The helmets will be tested by the Eisenhuttenwerk Thale in accordance with Section E of the acceptance regulations below. If the helmets can be readily manufactured from the steel and if the testing results are satisfactory, then the Thale plant will roll the entire smelting. If a smelting proves unsatisfactory, it is to be returned to the steelworks. The costs for manufacturing the test helmets are to be borne by the steelworks." Baer p.443

Helmets with the extra characters could signify that they had originally been these test helmets, the “pre-test” helmet shells produced to verify the integrity of a smelting. The lot numbers of observed ET M35 helmets with the extra characters range from about lot# 2460 to lot# 4996 (1935-1940), which covers the vast majority of ET M35 helmet production. Metric shell sizes of these "extra character" helmets are the five common shell sizes: 60, 62, 64, 66, and 68cm and they were later made into the five common M35 configurations: DD Heer, DD Luft1-2, DD KM, DD W/SS, and DD Field Police. Even Beaded ET M35 helmets are found with extra characters.

Another possibility could be quality control inspector's marks used to verify that the correct lot number had been stamped into each steel planchet of a bundle. Factory workers seeing that control mark on the topmost planchet would know that the entire bundle of steel discs had been properly numbered and inspected and that the planchets could then be distributed to the presses without fear of a mix-up.

M35 ET62 3668 8 DD LUFT1 STRLG 38RAB BS (8 BELOW) (EXTRA ET M35 NUMBERS 0-9)
M35 ET66 4163 S DD LUFT2 RAB BS (S ABOVE) (EXTRA ET M35 LETTERS B-Z)
M35 ET64 3315 4 6 DD HEER 37NRAB/STRAP (4 ABOVE/ 6 BELOW) (MULTIPLE NUMBERS)
M35 ET64 3815 T 8 DD W/SS BS (T ABOVE/ 8 BELOW) (LETTER/NUMBER COMBO)

M40 ET66 299 4 SD SS ZSH (4 ABOVE) (EXTRA ET M40 NUMBERS 0-9)
M40 ET64 237 T SD HEER 41ZSH (T BELOW) (EXTRA ET M40 LETTERS B-T)


I personally lean toward the idea of the quality control inspector's stamp on the top planchet of a bundle. There seems to be too many of these to all be test helmets.
M40 ET66 5062 II SD LUFT ZPG (II BELOW) (EXTRA ET M40 ROMAN NUMERALS I-VI)
 
Revision - 9 is off to the printers; 713 pages and nearly 20,800 entries.
 
There are at least two theories to this. p29.

I personally lean toward the idea of the quality control inspector's stamp on the top planchet of a bundle. There seems to be too many of these to all be test helmets.
M40 ET66 5062 II SD LUFT ZPG (II BELOW) (EXTRA ET M40 ROMAN NUMERALS I-VI)



Brian, Thank you for your time to reply.

The example you quote is near to the Lot numbers in my original post.

M40 ET66 5062 II SD LUFT ZPG (II BELOW) (EXTRA ET M40 ROMAN NUMERALS I-VI)

a) M40 ET66 5070 III SD LUFT (III BELOW) ROMAN NUMERALS
b) M40 ET66 5070 I DD HEER (I BELOW TO RIGHT) ROMAN NUMERALS.

I agree with your thoughts of quality control, though initially thought that the I, II, III..etc may have been different building Id from within the plant.

I guess the true reason will stay a mystery.

EF
 
I look forward to the hardcopy version, so that I can update my version 7 copy.

In the meantime, M40 SE64 816 SD Heer ZSH CV
M40 SE64 836 SD Heer ZSH SV

I have searched, but just can not find a meaning for the abbreviations CV an SV. Any chance of a clarification please? vents?

EF
 
It's in the SE M40 notes section.

SE M40 VENTILATION HOLES – CONICAL VENTS vs. STANDARD VENTS (CV/SV)
The SE marked M40 series is unique once again in that the types of embossed M40 style ventilation holes varies from the more standard appearing vent (SV) most commonly seen on other factory’s M40 and M42 helmets, to the conical vents (CV) that are unique to many SE produced M40 and to all hkp marked M42 helmets. This conical ventilation hole resembles what a grommeted M35 air vent might look like if embossed. In the SE marked M40 series, conical vents are plentiful and mixed among helmets with standard vents, with some lot numbers featuring helmets with both air vent styles (either conical or standard, not both types on the same helmet). Such examples show both air vent styles separated by slash marks (CV/SV).
M40 SE64 4419 SD LUFT ZSH CV/SV SQALB
M40 SE64 8368 SD HEER ZSH CV/SV
M40 SE64 9987 SD LUFT ZSH CV/SV
 
Ef 4858

I just received a EF 68 4858 was wandering if someone could help with the lot number. The shell was reused at some point in the Finnish army.
 

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well its an M35 for one thing and the lot# would narrow down the vintage some what between 37-39 EF made the fewest m35's.
 
Just got my m42 code CKL 66 , N-5515

CKL 66.jpg
Hi.
I am new here.
Just got my m 42 shell ,(comes from old storage for civilian defense and firemens in Czechoslovakia).
code CKL 66 , N-5515.
I just now producer The Eisenhüttenwerke in Thale , and CKL code stamped early 1944 ?
Is it right?
In additional how many were produced and used in WH , LW , SS ?
Thank you.
Russ
 
M40 Luftwaffe, SE62, lot number 4906. Purchased 08-03-19 at a gun show.
 

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Revision -11 is now available in hard copy (at www.lulu.com)

or PDF computer file

eBay item number:
323781025287

There are over 21,000 lot number entries, many entries represent multiple helmets, such as DD HEER parade helmet to SD HEER RTGG wartime reissued helmet to ND RTGG helmets brought to compliance with factory decal drops.

I discuss Pocher-SS decals on M42 helmets which many collectors are suspicious of, Wilhelm Ables Heer decals, Red Cross combat helmets, and Phosphate coated helmets in the REV-11 notes.

At 799 pages, I'm at my limit of 800 pages from this printer. I had to delete some redundant decal drop information to get everything to fit.
 

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M40 Q64 DN524 ND SLATE 44ZSH RM TO SD SS (POCHER-SS, FIELD/PW APPLIED)

M40 Q64 DN524 ND SLATE ZSH RM

M40 Q64 DN524 ND RTGG ZSH RM (DARK GRAY-BLACK INTERIOR)

M40 Q64 DN524 BEAD ND RM DARK-SFDB INT. PAINTRUNS (CREASE IN CROWN) Q-LINER


In this late war zone, no-decal Slate gray and green gray are seen in addition to a no-decal beaded. One of the slate gray helmets has had a pocher-SS decal applied, most likely postwar.

Even if your exact lot# is not found in the book, one can see the area of the list where it would be, and then see if it is in the decal area or not, and if so, which factory decals were being applied.
 
a.A./n.A. LINER SIZING SYSTEM​

It has been suggested that the a.A./n.A. liner band marking system was introduced in mid-1936. Prior to this, liner bands used in the early M35s were of the same size as those used in the transitional helmets (M16, M17, M18, ear-cutouts) which had a slightly smaller inside circumference. As a result, the liner bands found in the early M35s fit more loosely due to the larger inside circumference of the M35. All of these early liner bands had no type markings (a.A., n.A.). In mid-1936 this sizing problem was remedied by the production of larger liner bands that fit properly into M35 shells. But to keep the bands organized, the a.A./ n.A. sizing system was implemented. Subsequent liner bands produced for the transitional shells were marked a.A. (for ‘alter Art’ or ‘old type’), while liner bands produced for the M35 (M40, M42) were marked n.A. (for ‘neue Art’ or ‘new type’). The n.A. mark is subsequently found on nearly all liner bands found in M35s, M40s, and M42s and even on 1945 dated liner bands. (ref: Goodapple, vol. II p.29)

from: German Helmet Lot Numbers 1935-1945 p.8.

photos from: http://helmetsofwar.com/2021/03/m35-se66-dd-heer-helmet/

A few early Heer helmets from both SE and ET have been seen with metric size markings (shell/liner) ink stamped into the inside rear on top of the lot number.
In this photo the markings are as such: 66/57-58 (probably depot sizing stamps).

Normally a 66cm helmet shell would take a 58-59cm liner, but the inkstamp is one liner size range smaller (57-58). I believe this discrepancy reflects early production liners prior to mid 1936 before the a.A./n.A liner sizing system was implemented. Early M35 liners also fit into the smaller transitional shells (M16/17/18) which had a slightly smaller inside circumference. This caused early M35 liners to fit more loosely than they did later on. This problem was corrected in mid-1936 when n.A. liners were produced that fit properly into M35 shells (66cm shell = 58-59cm liners).

M35 SE66 3319 DD HEER NRAB PFLG ET-DECAL 66/57-58 INKSTAMP

M35 ET66 R DD HEER 31NRAB-BRAUNSCHWEIG PFLG GS WILHELM ABLES DECAL
(66, 57-58 INKSTAMP ATOP R) ‘T./St.Abt.OKH I’ LINER INK/STRAP 1935DOME
 

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a.A./n.A. LINER SIZING SYSTEM​

It has been suggested that the a.A./n.A. liner band marking system was introduced in mid-1936. Prior to this, liner bands used in the early M35s were of the same size as those used in the transitional helmets (M16, M17, M18, ear-cutouts) which had a slightly smaller inside circumference. As a result, the liner bands found in the early M35s fit more loosely due to the larger inside circumference of the M35. All of these early liner bands had no type markings (a.A., n.A.). In mid-1936 this sizing problem was remedied by the production of larger liner bands that fit properly into M35 shells. But to keep the bands organized, the a.A./ n.A. sizing system was implemented. Subsequent liner bands produced for the transitional shells were marked a.A. (for ‘alter Art’ or ‘old type’), while liner bands produced for the M35 (M40, M42) were marked n.A. (for ‘neue Art’ or ‘new type’). The n.A. mark is subsequently found on nearly all liner bands found in M35s, M40s, and M42s and even on 1945 dated liner bands. (ref: Goodapple, vol. II p.29)

from: German Helmet Lot Numbers 1935-1945 p.8.

photos from: http://helmetsofwar.com/2021/03/m35-se66-dd-heer-helmet/

A few early Heer helmets from both SE and ET have been seen with metric size markings (shell/liner) ink stamped into the inside rear on top of the lot number.
In this photo the markings are as such: 66/57-58 (probably depot sizing stamps).

Normally a 66cm helmet shell would take a 58-59cm liner, but the inkstamp is one liner size range smaller (57-58). I believe this discrepancy reflects early production liners prior to mid 1936 before the a.A./n.A liner sizing system was implemented. Early M35 liners also fit into the smaller transitional shells (M16/17/18) which had a slightly smaller inside circumference. This caused early M35 liners to fit more loosely than they did later on. This problem was corrected in mid-1936 when n.A. liners were produced that fit properly into M35 shells (66cm shell = 58-59cm liners).

M35 SE66 3319 DD HEER NRAB PFLG ET-DECAL 66/57-58 INKSTAMP

M35 ET66 R DD HEER 31NRAB-BRAUNSCHWEIG PFLG GS WILHELM ABLES DECAL
(66, 57-58 INKSTAMP ATOP R) ‘T./St.Abt.OKH I’ LINER INK/STRAP 1935DOME
 

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