Third Party Press

German helmet lot numbers 1935-1945 ongoing research

Yes. I've been working on it and hope to have it available sometime this January. I will let y'all know when it's done.
 
Yes. I've been working on it and hope to have it available sometime this January. I will let y'all know when it's done.

When did you decide to produce a 8th edition?

I think it was back in September, you indicated that you didn't have plans for an 8th edition.

How are you going to treat all the C SS lids in the 7th edition?

I think you've got about 15.2k lids in the 7th edition. What's the lid count for the 8th?
 
tjg79, as you are aware, much has transpired since September. C-SS had always been treated with suspicion, and now it will be identified as template, spray painted. I have added extra chinstrap and linerband information with lists of some known makers (certainly not exhaustive). This can be helpful to identify your strap if you can only read a small portion of a chinstrap stamp.

I discuss things like when the late style domestamp first appears on ET M42 helmets along with the oval shaped domestamp that was used throughout ET production. I also discuss the a.A./n.A. markings on linerbands.

Many entries have added decal and paint information. The Huber Jordan Heer decals are listed more often on NS and EF helmets. I have highlighted more SS decals per maker and model.

V.7 has 584 pages. So far before final editing, there are 654 pages in V.8. This will increase slightly as I edit and add proper spacing, but as of now there are 70 extra pages in V.8. There are about 40 entries per page, so 70 X 40 equals approximately 2800 new entries, added to 15,200 totals approx. 18,000 entries for V.8.

Out of all of those, I have found only 2 helmets that I cannot slot, one of which I own.

I have heard some criticisms of this book, such as "why waste your money on a book when you can use our lot# database for free?".
 
Count me in as a "money waster" for V8. I take the list to shows and trips and use it as a first cut to validate at least the basic info sellers are so quick to provide. As an example, "you need to buy this one, I guarantee its right in your collection type...it's definitely an originally issued early (luft, navy, SS, etc...)." Checking the book "Gee, looking at the lot number, this appears to have been only originally issued to the Heer, you could be right, of course, but what makes you believe its (luft, navy, SS, etc...)" "Well, you can't always believe what's in the books, but how about I take off xx $s just to make you feel comfortable?"

and on it goes. While an E-list can do the same thing, having the paper copy book appears to be more intimidating and cuts through the BS much more quickly. So, again, I'm in for sure, it has really saved me money and time in the past
 
I'm in for some money wastage too for V8. I've got a collection of V5, V6, and V7. :happy0180:
 
I'm glad you guys are in with both feet.

Other people use the lists in their own ways, but here's some ways I use it:

I am thinking of buying an M42 SD Heer helmet marked hkp66 and 3023 lot number that has green-gray paint. The lot# list shows only a Luftwaffe SD with that identical lot#. Should I buy this helmet?

The fact that the list shows only Luftwaffe with a 3023 lot# is not necessarily a deal killer, because in this case I focus outward with the lists and look at what else the hkp factory was producing in model M42 in that general lot# range.

I see that hkp M42s are widely found in both Heer and Luftwaffe configurations. Then I look at where in the lists Heer and Luftwaffe decaled production ceases. Most lists have a "decal drop zone" or areas where ND helmets appear in numbers until the last factory decaled helmets are seen. The drop zone for this maker and model appears at about lot# 3241 with the last SD Heer at lot# 3428 and the last SD Luft at lot# 3477.

I now know by the lists that my 3023 lot# was within the range of decaled production. If the lot# had been much beyond lot# 3477 (let's say into the 4000-5000 range) that would be a definite red flag, as that area is firmly in no-decal ND territory.

Then I look at the Heer decal. In this case, the list tells me that the ET-Heer decal was the premier factory Heer decal used with this maker and model. So if it is a factory applied decal, I should expect to see the ET-Heer decal.

So at this point, the lot# lists have helped me to filter out the obviously bad helmets, those with high lot#s or with non-factory decals (such as SS, which were not factory applied on this make/model).

The next phase requires me to know what factory paint and original ET heer decals look like. Once I verify (by my previously acquired skills) that the helmet has original factory paint, decals and has original, undisturbed components, I can then move into negotiations to acquire the helmet.

Note that those who are 'experts' or well-versed can move right to the paint/decal/component authentication phase and dispense with lot#s. But regardless, many will find the lot# book an invaluable tool to help confirm or refute the claims of sellers.


Also be aware that lot#s should function as a general guideline and not necessarily as an absolute. Some earlier decal-era shells were either reissued as NDs or not factory completed until after the decal drops (also as NDs). Some of these period no-decal helmets with lower lot#s received decals during the postwar years and collectors should be aware of that. (That's where your expertise in period paint/decals/components kicks in)
 
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I will attempt to get it completed during winter break and have it ready by late January. PDF and direct order from Lulu will be available first. Purchase from my ebay account will be a bit later as I have to order my own supply.
 
Here is an interesting little tid-bit. The first DD Field Police decal configuration in 1936 was the non-bordered police eagle decal paired with the bordered party colors decal (NBE/BC). This configuration is found on M35 helmets of each of the five German helmet manufacturers. The bordered decals (BD) did not appear until 1940.


M35 ET62 2970....DD POLI NBE/BC 36NRAB-EMB PFLG GS
M35 SE64 2927....DD POLI NBE/BC 36NRAB PFLG
M35 Q66 2911.....DD POLI NBE/BC 36NRAB/DOME 38STRAP 1936DOME
M35 NS64 D135...DD POLI NBE/BC RAB PFLG 1938DOME
M35 EF62 781.....DD POLI NBE/BC 38RAB PFLG
 
Version 8 is available on PDF computer file ($15). Ebay item# 321974633432

Hard copies will hopefully be available by mid February.

Version 8 has 666 pages, is a 3.4 MB file with approximately 16,000 entries.

The screen captures show some of the pages.

I have gathered more paint and decal information and updated SS helmet information including C-SS.
 

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Got mine and thank you M45 for your work on this. Even having a passing interest in helmets makes this a required part of one's reference library IMHO.
 
Jack, I just sent your PDF file. The book will ship tomorrow.

You came up with the 'ruins', but didn't Hambone come up with the 'Sham-pains' ?

How about if I write it this way; 'Those darn Sham-pain (TM-hambone) Ruins (TM-jack)'.
 
What an amazing piece of work

Jack, I just sent your PDF file. The book will ship tomorrow.

You came up with the 'ruins', but didn't Hambone come up with the 'Sham-pains' ?

How about if I write it this way; 'Those darn Sham-pain (TM-hambone) Ruins (TM-jack)'.

Just got my birthday present to myself. The hours that went into this...my god...

I will have to dig out my lids and send you the info I have on them
 

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