1943 Russian 91/30 Mosin Nagant

I almost posted this in the Beutewaffen section, but I just can't quite make that jump, although tons of these were used by the Germans. I've wanted an all matching, original condition 91/30 for a long time and they just aren't available in any quantity as most stayed in Russian and were refurbed to one degree or another. I picked this one up as my lone example, and I'm pretty pleased with it. If we could find 98k's imported in this condition we wouldn't know what to do! This one has a tiny import mark at the end of the barrel, and I mean tiny and very hard to read- I think its a CAI import from the early 2000's? Anyway, no extra markings applied by the importers! This rifle is original finish, original matching numbers, and even has the original matching bayonet with it. I've seen the refurb bayos and they are ground, this one looks straight up. Best I can figure is a few crates of unissued 1943 Mosin 91/30 rifles came in with all the imports. I'm not 100% up to speed on what type of stock finish these were originally manufactured with, but this one looks like it hasn't been refinished to me, although that is comparing it to refurb rifles. Anyway, though some might like to see a really clean 91/30, it seems like a solid rifle with a mint bore!

I'm not much of a Mosin guy (even though I used to own half a dozen or so before they were sold to fund more mausers) but it looks good to me! You're definitely right that original condition ones are hard to find. The vast majority, I would think, went through some sort of refurbishment at one point or another.

Good score!

Very scarce! In years of looking, I have only seen 5 original finish 91/30s, including this one, and 4 were 1941 or earlier. So there are not many floating around especially those manufactured after the start of the war.

I'll attach a few photos of mine for comparison of the stock finishes. At least before 1941, stock finish appears to have been a very neatly applied red-brown varnish not at all similar to the shellac used later on. I do think that shellac is probably the original finish used from 1942-ish until the end of the war. Yours looks like shellac and it looks unsanded, so its probably good.

I am curious about a few things: Is the inside of the receiver blued or in the white? Is the 'ОГ' inspection found anywhere on the barrel/receiver? You know, you probably just need to send it to me for an in-depth inspection.

Inside of the receiver is blued, looks purple like the rest of it. I didn't take it apart, the shellac is heavy on the front end and the bands don't look like they have been off, so I figure I'll leave it be, but I don't see that "or" marking on the exposed portions. So I guess it was worth the $375 it cost me.

So what does the "or" marking signify?

mrfarb said:

So I guess it was worth the $375 it cost me. So what does the "or" marking signify?

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Easily, IMO.

I strongly suspect they are the initials of the chief inspector (or some similar position) at Izhevsk at the time. It probably constitutes some sort of final acceptance. Interestingly, yours appears to be stamped over the poorly applied CCCP roundel, which I had always assumed was the final acceptance into Soviet service. The initials change over time: ГB is found in the mid-late thirities (36-38 at least), changes once or twice around 1939/40/41 (I forget the initials, ИН and ПП I think), is ОГ in 1943, and IO in 1944. On the early guns, the same initials are stamped on the barrel as well, possibly indicating it passed proof firing.

Of course this is all based on my very meager attempts to catalog these changes, which are very limited by the difficulty in finding original examples to inspect.

That is an awesome piece Mrfarb! I've been searching for a WWI period or earlier, without any success. Over the years my nephew and me have scoured thousands, but never saw an original untouched like yours what a find! Until today I didn't know they exist, thanks for posting it. All we could find are the forced matched refurbished ones and picked up a couple nice examples.

Love the tooling marks on the bolt.

Very nice, I have one similar, same importer and markings, matching bayonet, probably from the same batch. Mine may be a 1944 though. That is obviously original finish and has not been refinished. My understanding is some original rifles that had not been reworked snuck in the early batches. They are tough to find and the light, unobtrusive import mark is very much a good thing! You can't collect WW2 rifles without one.

seeing the blank sidewalls is cool. how much does a non-refurbed 91/30 go for nowadays?

Interesting is too the matching serialed bayonet.

Bigdibbs88 said:

seeing the blank sidewalls is cool. how much does a non-refurbed 91/30 go for nowadays?

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A matching original non-refurbed 91/30 is much harder to find than a matching non-rework K98k. I've probably seen 10 G.41Ms for every decent SVT.38. You could fill a full size pickup truck with G/K.43s before you got to the first decent nonrework SVT.40. You could fill another full size pickup with P.38s and P.08s before you got to the first original TT.33 with matching mag.

Bigdibbs88 said:

seeing the blank sidewalls is cool. how much does a non-refurbed 91/30 go for nowadays?

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What Hambone said. Extremely hard to find, but good news is the market it so watered down with refurbs that when found they are usually very underappreciated and can be had far below what I think their worth.

I gave a mere $775 for my matching vet bringback. Refurb "collectors" recoiled in horror at what I paid, but I think that is a steal for a factory original 91/30 in 95%+ condition. I think Mike's is worth at least twice what he paid. If I had stumbled onto the auction, he would have had to fight me for it.

Photo of some Germans hanging out. One with a pre-war 91/30 (note that he is issued a 98k bayonet) and another with an SVT38.

The funny thing Ryan, it sat on Gunbroker with the $375 buy it now for 4 days before I convinced myself to buy it. What a doofus.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=336007593

BTW, I agree with your value assesment. I would say you could fill a football field with refurb 91/30's to 1 like this one.

Like Farb's. Early import, stamped matching, no line outs, ground numbers, mint unused bore. I am very sure that these two were pulled from the same lot as the seller from whom I bought this one had an Izhevsk '43 in the same shape, which he described as having crude machine marks. They were hand selected by a collector from a large import shipment back in the early 90s I believe. The seller from whom I bought mine years ago kept the '43. He contacted me years back and he offered it to me, then I think put it at auction. I'd bet that is the one Farb has.

More pics......