Third Party Press

Questionable Camos

If you don't like minefields stay away.

Exactly my point. I've attended militaria shows for 40+ years and will continue to. However, I can't be an expert in every aspect of the hobby. Therefore, I stay miles away from "original" German helmets (especially camo ones) and anything sold as "SS".
 
exactly...collect what you like and stay focused.. what happens is we get off track...We start with guns then move to helmets. then optics, then tunics then jap swords... then then then. Whoops.. I just spelled out my descent into darkness.....:facepalm: I can say I have fun and can fund most of my hobby.

You can also get help from others in the hobby. Most forum guys are friendly. These forums have done more to stop fraud by educating it's members than almost anything since the war ended.
 
Last edited:
If one collects things, particularly high dollar things, one must become a student of those things and history. I enjoy the journey and learning as much or more than the buying and accumulation. When I wanted to buy an Inglis High Power, I bought the excellent $70 Clive Law book on them, studied and studied. I have two Inglis High Powers. I know what originals look like. I am confident in my ability to discern originals. I collect K98ks and German helmets, so you can imagine the time I have invested and the confidence level there. Don't put in the time, you're a fraud victim looking for a crime scene.
 
My problem is that while I do attain some competence in an area as I acquire books, ask questions, look at examples in person and ultimately buy something, I then go off to some other area, A few years later - maybe a couple years later - I can hardly remember any of the minutia I once had in my head. At one time I knew Hi Powers quite well and collected a half dozen fine examples. Now, 6 or 7 years later CRS disease rules.
I do know this: Lugers are hopeless. Have you seen the 3 volume set on Lugers?
I once knew all the serial number breaks for Parker shotguns by memory - now, total noob (but have some fine examples). And Webley's and Mauser pistols - CRS. Glad it is a hobby and not a business. Still, I tell myself I have ranged from 1853 to 1949 with a special emphasis on the Great war and the Indian Wars and that covers quite a few arms by quite a few makers.

So, I have to go to my favorite books and re-read my notes and I think - GOd, I used to know this in my sleep.

Arrrggghh.
 
M38 cement/woodchips/gravel camo para

CEMENT/WOODCHIPS/GRAVEL CAMO PARA

http://www.italianwarfront.com/?page_id=1715

German WWII Fallschirmjäger camo helmet painted over heavy cement, wood chips and gravel camouflage.
 

Attachments

  • para 1.JPG
    para 1.JPG
    278.9 KB · Views: 72
  • para 2.JPG
    para 2.JPG
    274.3 KB · Views: 46
  • para 3.jpg
    para 3.jpg
    269.5 KB · Views: 43
  • para 4.JPG
    para 4.JPG
    279.1 KB · Views: 35
  • para 5.JPG
    para 5.JPG
    268.7 KB · Views: 36
  • para 6.JPG
    para 6.JPG
    282 KB · Views: 37
  • para 7.jpg
    para 7.jpg
    289.7 KB · Views: 32
  • para 8.jpg
    para 8.jpg
    265.3 KB · Views: 31
Last edited:
Original ww2 m42 et68 camo brush stroke painted helmet

BRUSH STROKE PAINTED CAMO HELMET

ORIGINAL WW2 M42 ET68 CAMO BRUSH STROKE PAINTED HELMET WITH LINER

DESCRIPTION
A superb three-color camouflage pattern in a personalized brush stroke application!!! The tan base layer of paint has been embellished by the addition of short scattered red ochre and green stripes in an attempt to blend in with the local terrain. The overall finish of the external paint is very flat with lots of surface patina which is always nice to see and the inside appears somewhat more aged than the outside which is typical of most camo helmets. The reason for this is that any camo paint would have been applied sometime in 1944 before the on coming invasion and therefore was never in theater for more than a year since the war was already over by then or because the German solider would have been captured so outside camo finishes tend to hold up much better than the thin factory issued paints remaining on the inside.

M42 SHELL MARKINGS: ET68 (Eisenhuttenwerke firm in Thale) Rear Lot No. 3292
BRANCH OF SERVICE: Definitely Heer (Army) From The Dark Gray Green Paint Finish on the Inside Rear Skirt and Front
PAINT COLORS: Yellow Tan, Reddish Brown and Dark Greens
LINER: Guaranteed 100% Original Steer Hide German WW2 Issued and In Excellent Condition
SPLIT PINS: Late War Flat Headed With All of Their Rear Slotted Washers Still Affixed
CONDITION: No cracks, dents or pitting I can make out just a lots of small nicks and scratch marks
ADDITIONAL COMMENTS: I usually turn down most camo helmets I'm offered as they never seem to look right and so many of them are messed with post war. This one however has the right patterns in the paint and the colors are pretty much a dead on match to some of the original Normandy camos I have in my own personal collection and this pattern also lines up with other known published examples so all in all it's made a believer out of me. The original seller seems honest enough by phone and told me she found it a her local church bizarre and asked to have me consign it for her on eBay so all I'm getting out of this is a commission fee so please bid according to what you see in the photos since I prefer to sell consignment helmets as is.


SELLER'S CAVEAT - (Please read below)
(If you are a member of an on-line helmet discussion forum please refrain from bidding on this auction as I have recently found that these chat rooms are full of extremely pessimistic people who almost always have the opinion that any camo being sold on eBay is not the real deal. These members are all anonymous and so you never even know who is giving their opinion whether or not it is a 16 yr old boy in his parent's basement pretending to be an expert or a seasoned professional. These forums are also chalked full of on-line helmet dealers who themselves have websites whereby they make their living selling at high retail prices and so anyone selling on eBay at a much lower price is a real and direct threat to their businesses. These dealers are greedy and want to control the German helmet market by creating a climate of fear by always insisting that every camo helmet being sold on eBay must be a fake or post war reproduction and that real original helmets can only be found on one of their websites. This is of course complete nonsense as their are variety of ways to find original German helmets as I myself am able to do on a monthly basis such as through on-line estate sales, euro based eBay sites, on-line searches of newspaper ads, local gun shows etc. Picking helmets and other German collectibles is just a hobby of mine and has nothing to do with my main business which is in home renovations. If I find a helmet for $300 and sell it here on eBay for $450 that is a great profit margin in my eyes and I'm happy with that even if the helmet is worth more and a dealer would have held out for nothing less than $750. I've been selling on eBay under multiple user-names since 1999 and feel I have a good understanding of this market place which is based on buyers expecting big savings and great deals otherwise they would just buy their items in a physical store. This is why I only ever care about what I paid for a helmet and not what some dealer would ask.)



EBAY Seller information
helmets-of-war-dot-com
100% Positive feedback
Item# 300947926771
Starting bid: $9
 

Attachments

  • 692509619_o.jpg
    692509619_o.jpg
    177.8 KB · Views: 49
  • 692509637_o.jpg
    692509637_o.jpg
    167.7 KB · Views: 33
  • 692509658_o.jpg
    692509658_o.jpg
    149.2 KB · Views: 32
  • 692509674_o.jpg
    692509674_o.jpg
    159.7 KB · Views: 41
  • 692509689_o.jpg
    692509689_o.jpg
    177 KB · Views: 32
  • 692509704_o.jpg
    692509704_o.jpg
    166.9 KB · Views: 27
  • 692509723_o.jpg
    692509723_o.jpg
    161.8 KB · Views: 27
  • 692509737_o.jpg
    692509737_o.jpg
    169.3 KB · Views: 25
  • 692509757_o.jpg
    692509757_o.jpg
    166.1 KB · Views: 22
  • 692509777_o.jpg
    692509777_o.jpg
    128.2 KB · Views: 23
  • 692509800_o.jpg
    692509800_o.jpg
    136.5 KB · Views: 22
  • 692509826_o.jpg
    692509826_o.jpg
    120.5 KB · Views: 21
  • 692509842_o.jpg
    692509842_o.jpg
    119.8 KB · Views: 19
  • 692509861_o.jpg
    692509861_o.jpg
    160.4 KB · Views: 25
  • 692509885_o.jpg
    692509885_o.jpg
    176.4 KB · Views: 21
  • 692509909_o.jpg
    692509909_o.jpg
    197.4 KB · Views: 26
  • 692509927_o.jpg
    692509927_o.jpg
    138.6 KB · Views: 26
  • 692509945_o.jpg
    692509945_o.jpg
    154.2 KB · Views: 30
Last edited:
Obviously fake camo helmet

Obviously fake camo helmet

I posted this obviously fake camo helmet with a postwar produced shell/liner to show the similarities with some of the camos previously posted.

If this camo had been applied to a wartime shell with an original liner (lets say to a heavily worn original helmet with original liner in place), IMO it would fit right in with many of the others on this thread being sold as originals.

UPDATE: An ET66 M35 has been seen with a very similar paint job.
 

Attachments

  • fake ls.jpg
    fake ls.jpg
    207.7 KB · Views: 62
  • fake rs.jpg
    fake rs.jpg
    249.9 KB · Views: 44
  • fake front.jpg
    fake front.jpg
    255.6 KB · Views: 40
  • fake rear.jpg
    fake rear.jpg
    296.2 KB · Views: 28
  • fake detail.jpg
    fake detail.jpg
    285.8 KB · Views: 26
  • fake liner.jpg
    fake liner.jpg
    210.6 KB · Views: 28
  • QC LS.JPG
    QC LS.JPG
    33.2 KB · Views: 24
  • QC RS.JPG
    QC RS.JPG
    32.3 KB · Views: 22
  • QC LINER.JPG
    QC LINER.JPG
    32.8 KB · Views: 19
Last edited:
I first started collecting helmets back in the mid 1970's. In those days I had the opportunity to see how helmets were faked back then. A friend of a friend used to buy Norwegian reworked helmets in bulk and repaint and re-decal them. The paint he used had no texture, and the smooth finishes were wiped with an antiquing solution to age them. Of course, he produced the gambit; Waffen SS, Black SS, dutch SS, italian SS, camos, snow, tan, wire, etc...

Believe it or not, these crude, early fakes were actually selling for top collector's prices at gun shows back then.
This was long before the superior paint application and aging techniques that we see today. Match this with high quality repro decals or even original decals, and you have some very convincing camos.
 
Obviously fake camo helmet

I posted this obviously fake camo helmet with a postwar produced shell/liner to show the similarities with some of the camos previously posted.

If this camo had been applied to a wartime shell with an original liner (lets say to a heavily worn original helmet with original liner in place), IMO it would fit right in with many of the others on this thread being sold as originals.

For comparison, here is mine, which is a known pattern that one attempts to fake I believe.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2377.jpg
    IMG_2377.jpg
    138.2 KB · Views: 56
  • Splinter%20Camo%202.jpg
    Splinter%20Camo%202.jpg
    149.9 KB · Views: 56
  • Splinter%20Camo%204.jpg
    Splinter%20Camo%204.jpg
    239.4 KB · Views: 48
  • Splinter%20Camo%205.jpg
    Splinter%20Camo%205.jpg
    161.3 KB · Views: 58
  • Splinter%20Camo%207.jpg
    Splinter%20Camo%207.jpg
    219.5 KB · Views: 71
  • Splinter%20Camo%208.jpg
    Splinter%20Camo%208.jpg
    220.9 KB · Views: 59
  • Splinter%20Camo%209.jpg
    Splinter%20Camo%209.jpg
    221.5 KB · Views: 63
REX39's CAMO WORK

Nice camo, HB! No doubt, many fake camos are based on original pattens to make them that much more believable.

Here is an example of Rex39's restoration work. This helmet is plain scary. Yes, it is easy to tell just by flipping the helmet over and looking for the tag, but what happens if the tag is removed?

http://www.collectortocollectormilitaria.com/

Fake Camo Helmet ID Tips

Identifying fake camouflaged helmets can be a very, very tricky thing to do! I will attempt to give you some "tips" to do so but, there is no sure way to tell!

I know many people like to hear "exact" reasons why something is not original. Again, that is not easy with a fake camo paint that is well done. After you see enough "original" helmets some things become "usually" noticeable. Firstly, they need to use a paint that was used during the period. When you see enough camo helmets you do start to notice differences in the sheen, the feel, the color and texture of the paint that was used during the period. I do like to see a natural patina on the paint which forms over time. Depending on storage, you very well may find red rust on a helmet. However, you want to see more black or inactive rust where the base metal shows through. If every spot of metal exposed has new rust, that is exactly what it is "new". Looking at all original helmets we do start to notice natural age and wear. Helmets that have been artificially aged and worn tend to look artificially aged and worn.

There are several people "faking" helmets out there and other people who want to restore damaged helmets. To restore or help preserve a historical artifact is a honorable quality in my mind although it has a gray area. If someone sells a restored piece they really need to disclose what has been done.

The helmet I have included pictures of, thank God! Was made by a man who makes them honestly. I am sure other people buy them and stick a liner in it and sell it as original! As I mentioned earlier the type of paint he uses does not look like the paint I would normally see on a camo helmet. I tell you though, having time to look it over and thinking about it I can see it as a fake. If I were at a show and had to make a decision quickly, it could fool me! This artist "rex" luckily marks his helmets with white paint inside. However, that would be easy for someone to remove. The way he simulates wear is very good and pretty convincing. In my 32 years of collecting I have learned one of the best ways to ID the fakes, is to know how they were made. Some people are happy to share what they do with you, others will not. One thing all agree on, is there is always someone better. There are other people out there who make their own paint, the same paint chemically as it was 70 years ago. So, the newer diagnostic tests they have to identify original helmets these days is limited in their use. Are they helpful? Yes! Can they confirm with 100% accuracy if a helmet has original paint on it? no! If they are analyzing elements in the paint for proportion and composition, that is all they can do. If modern paint is mixed with the same elements used in the originals it will not date the paint for you. Secondly, all it can really do to positively identify fake paint is notice components that did not exist during the WW2 period. Anything else is debatable!
 

Attachments

  • F1.JPG
    F1.JPG
    47.3 KB · Views: 85
  • F2.JPG
    F2.JPG
    46.6 KB · Views: 68
  • F3.JPG
    F3.JPG
    47.7 KB · Views: 62
  • F4.JPG
    F4.JPG
    50.6 KB · Views: 56
  • F5.JPG
    F5.JPG
    43.2 KB · Views: 52
  • F6.JPG
    F6.JPG
    51 KB · Views: 62
there was a complete thread somewhere. I think on waf where it was shut down. Then revived on g.h.w. where there is no funny business like keeping donors happy. Rex came out and outed one of his lids being sold on a dealers web site as Orig. There were some that made it to Europe and were being sold at flea markets ect. Scary stuff.. If the market wasn't there the fakers would disappear..

One guy told me to concentrate on mint orig finish lids. As the cammo market would collapse.
 
Dak m42 sd heer afrika camo

DAK M42 SD HEER AFRIKA CAMO

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Steelhelmets/h289e.htm

H-289e Excellent, Named Army DAK Camouflage Model 1942 Single Decal Helmet
This fantastic helmet has a smooth brown camouflage finish over its original dark green combat finish that remains 75% intact. It is mixed slightly with red and green undertones. The decal was carefully painted around and shows wear, but remains 70% intact. Inside the original green finish is still visible. Inside there is a size 57 brown leather liner that has minor discoloration and wear with some scuffing around the lower edge. It does remain soft and there is a drawstring. The owner wrote his name (“Manzerhöfer, Benny”) onto the side of the liner. There is a non-reinforced zinc linerband that is maker marked and dated “1940”. The side of the interior is stamped NS 64, indicating production by Verinigte Deutsche Nickelwerk of Schwerte in the size of 64. The rear of the skirt is stamped with the production lot number D221. A brown leather chinstrap that is maker marked and dated is also included. A desirable item in great condition!
$3,450.00
 

Attachments

  • H-289e-a.jpg
    H-289e-a.jpg
    46.7 KB · Views: 35
  • H-289e-b.jpg
    H-289e-b.jpg
    46 KB · Views: 30
  • H-289e-c.jpg
    H-289e-c.jpg
    51.2 KB · Views: 26
  • H-289e-d.jpg
    H-289e-d.jpg
    55.9 KB · Views: 24
  • H-289e-e.jpg
    H-289e-e.jpg
    51.7 KB · Views: 21
  • H-289e-f.jpg
    H-289e-f.jpg
    91.3 KB · Views: 26
  • H-289e-g.jpg
    H-289e-g.jpg
    60 KB · Views: 22
I like to hear the helpful opinions of everyone. I know I will never collect $3000 helmets of any kind--for both the price and the fakery. It is certainly a fact that the more valuable a thing becomes, the more it will be reproduced or faked. Awhile back I read a small book called something like "Nazi Millitaria: Fake or Real". It was entertaining and basically said there were fake Nazi items everywhere. It left me with the impression that every patch, armband, belt buckle, dress dagger, etc. that I may ever see for sale is more than likely a fake. I believe some of the old fakes are now "originals" or "real". The book (as I recall) gave such an example: After the war ended the American occupation troops were hunting for and willing to pay for good souvenirs. One of the German dagger factories was still intact, and seeing the opportunity to make a buck on some type of black market, kept on making daggers just to sell to the GI's. Also, in the post-war years some of the sellers of stuff like daggers and iron crosses would come across "warehouse finds" from WWII. Of course there may be some legitimate "warehouse finds", but I would have my doubts.

With all of this said, that is why I am not a collector of Nazi armbands, flags, medals, patches. (Also, other than lack of knowledge, I just don't want to have to store more stuff that has to be protected against heat, cold, moisture, moths, silverfish, etc.) However, I love the Mausers, P-38's, Walthers, etc. and will buy them when I can, and do my best to keep them well preserved. I know that there is all kind of fakery with this stuff, too, but at least I am fairly well informed as to what to look for, thanks to people like y'all on this website.
 
Unusual Green/Tan Camo

Stuckus, I feel fairly confident of my abilities with german helmets, but with any other aspect of TR militaria, I'm like a duck out of water.


An unusual tan camo scheme similar to others posted in this thread, although this one seems to incorporate the tan color in conjunction with the factory paint.
$2500

Ebay item# 190896656228
 

Attachments

  • $(KGrHqJHJFcFIMr7)M6-BSJ--1hpt!~~60_57.jpg
    $(KGrHqJHJFcFIMr7)M6-BSJ--1hpt!~~60_57.jpg
    220.8 KB · Views: 50
  • $T2eC16JHJIEFHSoyF!lCBSJ-+(2(Sw~~60_57.jpg
    $T2eC16JHJIEFHSoyF!lCBSJ-+(2(Sw~~60_57.jpg
    233.2 KB · Views: 40
  • $T2eC16NHJHgFFmN7fo0-BSJ-+k5Yrg~~60_57.jpg
    $T2eC16NHJHgFFmN7fo0-BSJ-+k5Yrg~~60_57.jpg
    277.5 KB · Views: 40
  • $T2eC16RHJF8FFplrhV56BSJ-+Elo0!~~60_57.jpg
    $T2eC16RHJF8FFplrhV56BSJ-+Elo0!~~60_57.jpg
    232.5 KB · Views: 32
  • $T2eC16VHJFoFH5Lhtv9fBSJ-+L14H!~~60_57.jpg
    $T2eC16VHJFoFH5Lhtv9fBSJ-+L14H!~~60_57.jpg
    234.7 KB · Views: 27
Stuckus, I feel fairly confident of my abilities with german helmets, but with any other aspect of TR militaria, I'm like a duck out of water.


An unusual tan camo scheme similar to others posted in this thread, although this one seems to incorporate the tan color in conjunction with the factory paint.
$2500

Ebay item# 190896656228

That's a $250 helmet with 25 cents worth of new tan spray paint over it, which has been whipped with a chain and pushed around a gravel parking lot. In my humble opinion.........
 
Obviously a partial camo scheme mimicking the known originals. So, a 10X profit was made using a bit of camo paint.

A factory no-decal helmet ($450) with a postwar SS decal applied has also been known to bring a 10X profit ($4500+)
 
Last edited:

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top