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Thread: VZ24 thoughts - German used?

  1. #1
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    Default VZ24 thoughts - German used?

    I picked up a rather nice VZ24 this week. The shopkeep didn't know much about it, so I did NOT overpay. Cam out of an estate. It's all matching as far as I can tell. Bolt is not re-numbered. Matches receiver. Stock matches receiver. 3-digit assembly number inside the stock and handguard match each other. Bottom-metal un-numbered and every part on the rifle marked CZ. Bore about an 8/10. CZ proof at the wrist.

    Rifle has the Czech army acceptance E (lion) 26 stamp and the pre-rampant lion roll stamp of the BRNO factory. 4 digit serial, B suffix. Siderail simply "vz24". Definitely has seen a fair bit of field use. No import markings anywhere. Nothing looks replaced, refinished or sanded.

    Frankly, apart from not having ANY german markings, like a depot stamp on the wrist, it looks a lot like a vet bringback K98k in terms of condition.

    Are there other ways a decent non-refurb early czech-used vz24 could get to North America besides coming back after the war?

    I'll post pics tomorrow.

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    Yes, it could have been brought in by any arms importer in business after 1950.
    Regards,
    John

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    ok, so in other words, it either came back with a vet, or was imported in the relatively short window from 1950 to 1968?

    Honestly, I find commercial importation to be low probability. As I unsertand it, Czech-issed 24's were virtually ALL pressed into some form of axis service after annexation, and those left after the war either got seized as reparations (likely the guns eventually sold to importers) or were refurbed and re-issued to post-war indigenous forces. (also likely sold to importers, but usually in refurb condition).

    I guess there is no more way to know it's history than any other matching WW2 or earlier 98 that does not have capture documentation.

    Here's another question though, would a czech army accepted VZ24 have ESCAPED axis use in WW2 by any means? Or were the very great majority used by the Third Reich and its allies after 1938?

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    The pics I promised.
















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    Senior Member AndyB's Avatar
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    looks like normal Czechoslovak Vz.24 military rifle, no any german upgrades visible, what is on buttstock disc? Could be captured by GI in Czechoslovakia too.

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    no expert on vz's but i also see nothing that would indicate german use.
    WTB/T e/135 HT rear base

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdibbs88 View Post
    no expert on vz's but i also see nothing that would indicate german use.
    OK, well basically my logic goes like this:

    1) This rifle has no evidence of serving outside Czechoslovakia. In other words, it's not a Contract rifle.
    2) In 1939, the Czech army came under Nazi control, for the most part, with annexation - the exception being the Slovak portion. There are no slovak markings, so I'm thinking it was in the German half of the country in 1939 (the part ceded to Germany).
    3) All VZ24 army rifles in the German zone became part of the Wehrmacht supply system, correct?
    4) Only a relatively small portion of the VZ24 rifles in German use were converted to G24(t) pattern. Most served in VZ24 trim and were captured at war's end.

    So if the above is true, I'm thinking strong case for German use - probably in the west, or it would be an RC.

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    Baby Face RyanE's Avatar
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    Not every vz24 in German service was modified. You can't prove this one was German used, but it was very likely in German inventory from 1938-1945. I like it!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    "Ach du lieber!" Bigdibbs88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claven2 View Post
    OK, well basically my logic goes like this:

    1) This rifle has no evidence of serving outside Czechoslovakia. In other words, it's not a Contract rifle.
    2) In 1939, the Czech army came under Nazi control, for the most part, with annexation - the exception being the Slovak portion. There are no slovak markings, so I'm thinking it was in the German half of the country in 1939 (the part ceded to Germany).
    3) All VZ24 army rifles in the German zone became part of the Wehrmacht supply system, correct?
    4) Only a relatively small portion of the VZ24 rifles in German use were converted to G24(t) pattern. Most served in VZ24 trim and were captured at war's end.

    So if the above is true, I'm thinking strong case for German use - probably in the west, or it would be an RC.
    Just like Ryan said, many were used but not modified. Not all vz's went to g24t style, there are vz's with only minor modifications. This very well may have been German used, just no way to prove it. I don't think you can really claim it's a German used vz24 with no depot markings or German mods. Without those it's just Czech in most people's opinions despite the fact that it may have served with the Germans.
    WTB/T e/135 HT rear base

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigdibbs88 View Post
    Just like Ryan said, many were used but not modified. Not all vz's went to g24t style, there are vz's with only minor modifications. This very well may have been German used, just no way to prove it. I don't think you can really claim it's a German used vz24 with no depot markings or German mods. Without those it's just Czech in most people's opinions despite the fact that it may have served with the Germans.
    This is an extremely reasonable view.

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