Third Party Press

"P" letter cartouche on grip of 98k wooden stocks...

This is a eagle L stock from a 1939 243. The rifle is all matching and P marked.
 

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6 1939 / Br

Is this the stamp as you see it T96?

John, I recorded yours also, - thanks! I am forming the foundation of a database, will search through my files and try and form a suitable sample. I will start with the makers (assemblers) that I have the most examples of, though this will take sometime as there are a lot of file to search through. Should go fairly fast though as not too many show these areas, and fewer still show them well enough to make a record.
 
Loewe, it's either BR or maybe B or 3 P. After 1939 looks like a small backward R with a line above it and then what looks like a K.
 

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p on stock

serial number is 8611d.
1940 , "42"
Luft K98
There's a "V" on the stock under the butt plate on mine.

have a great day!!
 

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Last edited:
Here is my 1938 40 Luff. in the "x" block matching right down to the cleaning rod. I can't make out the ink stamp in the channel.
 

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This is a good start and hopefully some consistency will show up on how the markings are applied according to each maker (assembler). The ink stamped "Br" is a good start and I am pretty sure I have seen the Bo before also.

I am sure this is the right track, though even if you can establish a solid pattern, identifying the blank maker will be difficult if not impossible by a pattern alone. It is probably an abbreviation for a company name, like the early barrel blank makers, not an ordnance code, and the actual letters used may vary maker to maker as they do with some of the barrel makers. I think the key is finding an ordnance code of one of the providers, though this will not be easy as generally suppliers of unfinished products are rarely marked to code or with a waffenamt, - for obvious reasons, they are raw material not finished products. There are exceptions though and I think later production laminate stocks might have a better chance of having one.

Anyway, this is progress anyway. Hopefully this will continue...
 
byf41 3652u

"Ha 1 25 41 S". 'P' marked laminate.

I've got a byf41 q block with a P marked laminate that I will try to look at later this evening.
 
possible armorer replacement stock ??????
1939 Erma in the "d" block with the "p" marking. byf marked and notice the fonts on wrist and channel.
 

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Yes, an ordnance spare, - and very helpful too with Ryan's example, also a MO - Ha marked stock.

While I still have not found a match (w/ the "P") to a plywood or maker of laminate that was operating in Germany in the 1930-1940s, I do have some possibilities; at least in one case I think it is a good fit potentially.

Br potentially matching Westdeutsche Sperrholzwerke Hugo Bresser, they were a large operation during the war, several studies have been done on them and while the products they specialized in do not seem to fit (construction materials, chip and waste material bonding) their operation is the type that might be compatible because of the one case that I have seen. I am looking for firms that specialize in plywood or laminate furniture or construction materials because of the "one" example known.

The pictures I have came from G/K forum, I won't post them here, but maybe Vaughn will as they were his. I filed it away back in 2008 under sub-contractors for wood, but recently found it as I started to organize firms by industry-location while working on the waffenamt study. The firm is code ovx Weser Sperrholzwerke GmbH, Holzminden, which is in the middle of nowhere Germany, not near Minden as I originally though but rather north of Kassel, probably the closest thing to a city is Einbeck, which is east of the town. The stock is a "c" stock, the code is under the buttplate, next to "94" sideways to one another. He posted about it due to some markings related to a vet-GI also located here, but markings stamped there are original imo.

I have yet to go through my files looking for others, as I have a few things working and taking my time, but if those that have bcd rifles, probably mid-war best, will take a peek that might get us more codes, and they might lead to possibilities for Ha or Bo etc... I am sure it isn't the only supplier, there were other larger sperrholz makers (a huge number of firms exist during this period, most related to furniture or construction material making) and my bet is we can find more codes. Otherwise without period documents the possibilities are endless.

possible armorer replacement stock ??????
1939 Erma in the "d" block with the "p" marking. byf marked and notice the fonts on wrist and channel.
 
P for plywood?? hahahahah

Loewe what are the ovx marked pics you speak of? On a k98k stock?
 
CAR, I am not sure the exact question, but although I worked on this for awhile the interest apparently is limited, so I moved on to other projects that interest me more.

I did create a project file for this though, still in the collection phase, but so far all these ovx marked stocks are on bcd/4 rifles, though it is very possible other earlier rifles have them, - few take the buttplate off and I do not have the time to go through several hundred files hunting for bcd/43 that show it unless others have interest enough to contribute their time.

In a case such as this, I have found that it is best to create a project file, add new rifles as they come up and when searching through older files, for other things, adding them when they are noticed. Or better yet, wait for Mike's new book to solve the mystery, - he has an army of helpers and he undoubtedly will have to resolve this in Volume II.
 
I have two with "P" marked stocks, interestingly enough both duv's, one 1941, one 1942 (the 42 was the subject of a multi page discussion, as it is a bit of an oddball...). One is a matching gun, one is a bolt only mismatch....

Paul, you should have both the data sheets for these guns, I'll have to check if there is anything under the butt plates....
 
BTW, if this is regarding the bcd/4 you own, the pictures that would be of interest, are any markings under the buttplate, usually the ovx also is accompanied by a number pattern, often irregularly applied, also any markings on the exterior of the stock that might be used to establish a pattern. I suspect ovx only supplied the blank to Menzel, and they may have placed different markings on the exterior after finishing, whether these are going to form a useful pattern is unknown until enough are collected.

Obviously there were probably more suppliers of laminate blanks, all makers should be observed for markings under the buttplate and see if any pattern can be established. With our experience in rifle barrel production, I expect the patterns to be similar, but so far too little is collected to know if this project is even worth investigating.

Also, congratulations on the bcd/4, looks like a nice rifle!

P for plywood?? hahahahah

Loewe what are the ovx marked pics you speak of? On a k98k stock?
 
I probably do as you have been very helpful in the past with my research, - thanks!

I might also point out that there are other makers of stocks known, hvq - Fagus Werk, Karl Benscheidt, Alfeld-Leine, being known with certainty. It is not that we do not already know the wood related and furniture industry (Menzel being the best known) was involved in stock making, it is that there is almost no research done so far and to develop one will take a lot of tedious trends work (not so bad doing it as rifles show up, but to trend out dozens of rifles at a time, for various categories, it is very time consuming..) and contributors taking their rifles apart. Two things that are not always easy to accomplish...

I have two with "P" marked stocks, interestingly enough both duv's, one 1941, one 1942 (the 42 was the subject of a multi page discussion, as it is a bit of an oddball...). One is a matching gun, one is a bolt only mismatch....

Paul, you should have both the data sheets for these guns, I'll have to check if there is anything under the butt plates....
 
.............................................

CAR, I am not sure the exact question, but although I worked on this for awhile the interest apparently is limited, so I moved on to other projects that interest me more.

I did create a project file for this though, still in the collection phase, but so far all these ovx marked stocks are on bcd/4 rifles, though it is very possible other earlier rifles have them, - few take the buttplate off and I do not have the time to go through several hundred files hunting for bcd/43 that show it unless others have interest enough to contribute their time.

In a case such as this, I have found that it is best to create a project file, add new rifles as they come up and when searching through older files, for other things, adding them when they are noticed. Or better yet, wait for Mike's new book to solve the mystery, - he has an army of helpers and he undoubtedly will have to resolve this in Volume II.

My byf 44 has ovx stock
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?10259-byf-44-All-correct
 
I hadn't seen that thread, I sometimes overlook MO threads as their production is so consistent and tedious, dull.. but that is a neat rifle, though it lost some of its excitement when I discovered it was a Menzel stock... I had hoped ovx supplied MO directly, or rather the rifle showed they did, but another Menzel recording is still very useful!

Thanks for the link! (and taking it apart)

 
Blm

Paul, starting to ramp up my data acquisition for Vol.2 and will share any data I get.
Took apart the 237 code 1940 and only small "Br." stamped in channel with no date code.
Rear of buttplate is sanitary.

Also for your barrel codes: 237 1940, sn. 6645 no letter block, barrel code 39R394.

Once I get all my MO stuff done will forward that as well.

The OVX link to Mauser is a new one. The primary supplier to Mauser for laminated blanks was apparently the Adolf Zimber firm.

EDIT: The OVX was stamped on a 'c' (Tischener) stock, of which Mauser was supplied many in late 1944 and into 1945. That explains that anomaly.
 
Thanks Bruce, I was sure it was underway in earnest, the data on the BLM is most welcome also, thanks!

First I have heard of Adolf Zimber, no code apparently and I have not encountered an abbreviation which fits and little more information about the firm, - I assume the company is Adolf Zimber Sägewerke, Bad Krozingen? The only thing I could find that fits at all... in B-W, but not close, a good drive by German standards.


Paul, starting to ramp up my data acquisition for Vol.2 and will share any data I get.
Took apart the 237 code 1940 and only small "Br." stamped in channel with no date code.
Rear of buttplate is sanitary.

Also for your barrel codes: 237 1940, sn. 6645 no letter block, barrel code 39R394.

Once I get all my MO stuff done will forward that as well.

The OVX link to Mauser is a new one. The primary supplier to Mauser for laminated blanks was apparently the Adolf Zimber firm.

EDIT: The OVX was stamped on a 'c' (Tischener) stock, of which Mauser was supplied many in late 1944 and into 1945. That explains that anomaly.
 
Paul,

I got the info on the OVX marked stock, and figured I would just check all my wood. Not sure if any of it is useful, but more is better then less.
So here it is.
Bcd4 34868 1st no letter
Channel
V or 7
E/18
Under butt plate
7 37
OVX
Keel
C
Sling cut out
None

Dou43 6482hh
Channel
6482hh
Under buttplate
BLANK
Sling cutout
B

Bnz45 3296T
Channel

e/623
2
Under buttplate
Blank
Sling cutout
3


Dou44 3519e
Channel

3519e SH
Under buttplate
Blank
Sling cutout
B


Portuguese Contract 7419 h
Channel

7419
Under butt
P
Sling cutout
Bolt side -

2 2 w hh(in script)
Sling cutout sling side
7

Byf42 2524ii
Channel

2524
Under butt
Blank
Sling cutout on bolt side
Cursive n, 2, H

byf43 41847k
Channel
41847
Under Butt
Blank
Sling cutouts
Blank
 

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