LK5-marked Berthier Mle.1907-15 Mosqueton

[Pat]

This is a slightly odd variation on the well-trodden captured French carbine theme. Most of those built by the French and subsequently used by the Wehrmacht were Mle. 1916 or Mle. 1892 weapons upgraded to Mle.1916 specs. This included the new wide front sight blade, filling in of the cleaning rod channel and the substitution of the old magazine in favor of the fully enclosed and protruding metal 5 round magazine with hinged floor plate.

Instead of a Mle.1892 or 1916, this is a former Berthier Mle. 1907-15 rifle with a 1916 dated barrel that received the first two of the three above listed modifications, but retains it's 3 round magazine and original stock configuration around the action. Note the open area under the magazine. While this allowed a stripper clip to drop free, it also remained wide open to fouling from mud, dirt, et al. Another difference is the lack of a side sling attachment bar seen on most carbines. This carbine retains it's original rifle configuration bottom sling attachment swivel in lieu of the side. It's uncommon to encounter a Mle.1907-15 that has been cut-down to carbine length, but they're out there.

Another small oddity is the location of the LK5 stamp. These are typically located on the left side of the butt stock, but this one has been stamped on the right side. Like other LK marked weapons, this one has a secondary number stamped into the wrist of the stock. This one also displays stamped serial numbers on components not originally marked by the French, both barrel bands and the butt plate. Additionally, the bolt shows traces of having been blued, again contrary to French practice.

Pat

 

[Pat]

A few more-
Pat

 

[RyanE]

Instead of a Mle.1892 or 1916, this is a former Berthier Mle. 1907-15 rifle with a 1916 dated barrel that received the first two of the three above listed modifications, but retains it's 3 round magazine and original stock configuration around the action.

Not quite. This particular carbine was just built using an 07/15 receiver that was available. It wasn't cut down or converted or anything. From 1916 until 1918, there was a transition period from the Mle1892 to the Mle1892 M16 (or Mle1916), so you can even find M16 marked receivers that were delivered in the Mle1892 spec (I have one) along with pretty much any other receiver marking the French were using.

You are correct that the French, strangely, did not convert some of these to the 1916 spec after the war even though they upgraded them with the new sights, N chamber, etc. No idea why they wouldn't.

Just curious what is the barrel proof date? It is located on a flat on the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Pat]

Thanks for the different angle and info on the receiver-
Pat

 

[dave]

Not quite. This particular carbine was just built using an 07/15 receiver that was available. It wasn't cut down or converted or anything. From 1916 until 1918, there was a transition period from the Mle1892 to the Mle1892 M16 (or Mle1916), so you can even find M16 marked receivers that were delivered in the Mle1892 spec (I have one) along with pretty much any other receiver marking the French were using.

You are correct that the French, strangely, did not convert some of these to the 1916 spec after the war even though they upgraded them with the new sights, N chamber, etc. No idea why they wouldn't.

Just curious what is the barrel proof date? It is located on a flat on the bottom of the barrel.

Thanks for the different angle and info on the receiver-
Pat

This is a slightly odd variation on the well-trodden captured French carbine theme. Most of those built by the French and subsequently used by the Wehrmacht were Mle. 1916 or Mle. 1892 weapons upgraded to Mle.1916 specs. This included the new wide front sight blade, filling in of the cleaning rod channel and the substitution of the old magazine in favor of the fully enclosed and protruding metal 5 round magazine with hinged floor plat

Instead of a Mle.1892 or 1916, this is a former Berthier Mle. 1907-15 rifle with a 1916 dated barrel that received the first two of the three above listed modifications, but retains it's 3 round magazine and original stock configuration around the action. Note the open area under the magazine. While this allowed a stripper clip to drop free, it also remained wide open to fouling from mud, dirt, et al. Another difference is the lack of a side sling attachment bar seen on most carbines. This carbine retains it's original rifle configuration bottom sling attachment swivel in lieu of the side. It's uncommon to encounter a Mle.1907-15 that has been cut-down to carbine length, but they're out there.

Another small oddity is the location of the LK5 stamp. These are typically located on the left side of the butt stock, but this one has been stamped on the right side. Like other LK marked weapons, this one has a secondary number stamped into the wrist of the stock. This one also displays stamped serial numbers on components not originally marked by the French, both barrel bands and the butt plate. Additionally, the bolt shows traces of having been blued, again contrary to French practice.

Pat

I have a vz23 with LK5 mark on right side, 41 grip stamp, no hard fast rule where it should be evidently.