S184/G Newly Acquired - Reworked for postwar use? Opinions

[Apha-Mike]

I saw this S/184G up for auction tonight with 12 minutes left but the price was still low enough to take a lowball shot. Ended up winning at a very decent price ( I hope) but I had 12 min. to look it over and research. I knew the frog is an M1930 from Yugoslavia which they used for bayonets on their M1924's and M1948 Rifles.
So going back to my previous post re: grips changes on the K98 Bayonets is it reasonable that a1935 Paul Corts would have a black phenolic grip? Also the wear on the grips doesn't appear to match the wear on the blade. No idea of the maker or year on the scabbard but the frog stud shows idents for pre 1941 scabbards. It's the Black Grips, the 80% plus Bluing, and the hint of re-serialization on the guard (can't verify until it arrives) that has me wondering if this is a captured and re-issued K98 Bayonet.. If so, then the Yugo frog begins to make sense. It was not sold with any information that would be of use. I will update with better pics once it arrives. I'd appreciate any opinions on Black Grips on a '35 Joseph Cortes and what to look for on a captured K98 bayonet and how does that affect the value. I can tell you that if I sold the scabbard and frog separately I could make my money back. If it is a capture I think that's a plus as it adds a little variation into my collection. Thank you Gentlemen!!

 

[AndyB]

This is a postwar yugoslavian rework. the frog is M1948 type. S184G would have a wooden grips serialed to number or assembly number. the piece could be used as a reeanactor piece or a collection of postwar refurbishments, anyway its bring back to prewar condition would be impossible. the prices of similar postwar reworks are very low compare the normal Wehrmacht production pieces.

 

[grimlin13]

If you are new to collecting S84/98 III bayonets, slow down. Try not to buy the first thing you see. It can be hard. If you are collecting cool old German stuff (i.e. bayonets) just to have a thing or two, then you did that. If you are collecting to have a collection of any value, you need to learn a little about what you want to collect. Reworked German bayonets are like Russian captured K98 rifles. They have been altered from their original issued condition and are not as collectible or valuable. Save your money and wait for a matching serial numbered bayonet. A matching bayonet in good condition is better than a non-matching bayonet in mint condition. There are exceptions to that but, not going into that here. Read, look at pics and learn. Decide how you want to build your collection. Like one for each year 34 to 44 (45 rare and costly) or maybe a certain year or maker. We have members who have one of every year and every maker for each one of those years.
In short, read and learn, wait for a matching set.
Welcome to the forum.

 

[Apha-Mike]

If you are new to collecting S84/98 III bayonets, slow down. Try not to buy the first thing you see. It can be hard. If you are collecting cool old German stuff (i.e. bayonets) just to have a thing or two, then you did that. If you are collecting to have a collection of any value, you need to learn a little about what you want to collect. Reworked German bayonets are like Russian captured K98 rifles. They have been altered from their original issued condition and are not as collectible or valuable. Save your money and wait for a matching serial numbered bayonet. A matching bayonet in good condition is better than a non-matching bayonet in mint condition. There are exceptions to that but, not going into that here. Read, look at pics and learn. Decide how you want to build your collection. Like one for each year 34 to 44 (45 rare and costly) or maybe a certain year or maker. We have members who have one of every year and every maker for each one of those years.
In short, read and learn, wait for a matching set.
Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the Welcome. I have 3 matching Bayonets as well as some matching year/maker bayonets. I believe I stated that the price was low and I welcome a post war refurbished to my collection. I have enough quality S84/98 III's to be satisfied and so cheap bayonets that have a different story intrigue me. And thanks for the advice!

 

[Apha-Mike]

This is a postwar yugoslavian rework. the frog is M1948 type. S184G would have a wooden grips serialed to number or assembly number. the piece could be used as a reeanactor piece or a collection of postwar refurbishments, anyway its bring back to prewar condition would be impossible. the prices of similar postwar reworks are very low compare the normal Wehrmacht production pieces.

Thanks Andy! I thought so. I knew from the listing the black grips probably meant a refurb.. The change out on the grips doesn't bother me. Original wood would have been better and of course If it had the matching scabbard with the serial number changed to match the new S/N that would have been perfect. If they sell for less then I paid accordingly. Thanks much! And yes a 1948 Yugo Frog not the M1930 I was hoping for.

 

[AndyB]

Unfortunally the set is not yugoslavian matched as no same serials on crossguard and hook of scabbard. Parts or origin markings or configuration were for Yugoslavian not interesting, they repaired all that have in area from WW2.

 

[Apha-Mike]

This is a postwar yugoslavian rework. the frog is M1948 type. S184G would have a wooden grips serialed to number or assembly number. the piece could be used as a reeanactor piece or a collection of postwar refurbishments, anyway its bring back to prewar condition would be impossible. the prices of similar postwar reworks are very low compare the normal Wehrmacht production pieces.

This bayonet arrived today so I'll just post a quick follow up and an interesting update. The bayonet does not have any form of acceptance marks!. Military, or Politzei. Referencing PW Cosol's posting on Behoerden/Export Bayonets back in Feb 2018. This would appear to be an export bayonet, and based on the Ricasso stamps, taken from the military production line and redirected as an export. Then, based on the re-stamping of the scabbard and the bayonet, it look like it was captured by the Allies (Yugosplavia) and re-issued. The scabbard is loaded with Cosmoline so it may have been packed and put away as it's in "as new" condition. Thanks again!

 

[AndyB]

The bayonets used code for army so when not visible proofs on pommel so it was removed by yugo rework, You probably not correclty read the PWCo article about Behoerden/Blanko pieces.
there is no report of any S/nummeral codes send to police or NS organisation. the explanation is easy as You could see the mechanical spures on blade of S/184G bayonet, it was refurbished all surface in Yugoslavia as S/184G would have a excellent high polish surface on all parts, mainly blade and pommel. S/184 G means Corts Sn. in 1935. When You remove correctly grips You will find more proofs on tang and near slot of bayonet adapter on rifle, WaA253 with low winged eagle.
The scabbard was made by P.Weyersberg in same year 1935 under code S/176G. Rough yugo refurbishment.
The pictures is extremely long period to download even i have slow internet.

 

[Apha-Mike]

The bayonets used code for army so when not visible proofs on pommel so it was removed by yugo rework, You probably not correclty read the PWCo article about Behoerden/Blanko pieces.
there is no report of any S/nummeral codes send to police or NS organisation. the explanation is easy as You could see the mechanical spures on blade of S/184G bayonet, it was refurbished all surface in Yugoslavia as S/184G would have a excellent high polish surface on all parts, mainly blade and pommel. S/184 G means Corts Sn. in 1935. When You remove correctly grips You will find more proofs on tang and near slot of bayonet adapter on rifle, WaA253 with low winged eagle.
The scabbard was made by P.Weyersberg in same year 1935 under code S/176G. Rough yugo refurbishment.
The pictures is extremely long period to download even i have slow internet.

Thanks for clearing that up Andy. That explains a lot!!

 

[Apha-Mike]

In searching for a related issue , re-bluing of S84/98 bayonets, I came across this former post of mine so I'm hoping I can just tag on to this post for more information. I have since sold the Yugo refurb
but have recently come across instances of re-blued blades from S code bayonets. All of the waffnamt stamps are there, as are the period correct wood handles. Specifically, it's a S/175K S/N 1795a. I came across a reference that some early S84/98s were refurbed by Germany for WWII. I've also heard that not all post war refurbs, such as Yugoslavia, were scrubbed and re-gripped. So what's a collector to do when there is a serious difference in $$ value? Is there a way for the collector to distinguish German War time refurbs from post war eastern European refurbs? Thanks much.

 

[AndyB]

German reworks are profesionally done with assembling all parts with matching numbers, which postwar was not realised by any east european contries, yugoslavian refurbish have a special number. There are not details visible on here provided S/175K that this is a yugoslavian refurbish, some bayonets certainly would pass the heavy refurbish done prior depot storages or commerzial sales.