G43/K43 breakage during the war ?

This is just something I am curious about, was it pretty common DURING WW2 for G43 / K43 rifles to fail ?

Nowadays almost everyone knows not to shoot them without a shooters kit, but was it a widely known problem for the Germans in '44-'45 ?

I think bolt carriers might have been the most common part to break during the war. Some G43s you'll find will have a bolt carrier that isn't numbered and will only have a waffenampt on it. This signifies an armorer's replacement.

Image credit: WaA623

Absolutely, I'm thinking they failed quite frequently. Most of these were built and hurried through and I think the Germans even knew these rifles were only good for so many thousands of rounds before they knew they would catastrophically fail. I guess, during the rush of things, they couldn't go into the design aspect and design fixes into the rifles because I'll bet it would take up too much resources and such and it would be easier to simply replace the rifle once one catastrophically failed. Or, it would be easier to replace whatever parts failed quicker too. I'll bet the mentality was "just replace it, don't worry about a fix". I can't really source my thoughts, but after reading more and more about these rifles, that's what I have been gathering. I also think that, by design and design fixes that could have taken place, the G/K.43 series could have way out performed probably every rifle out there in the field during WWII, even our M1 Garands. The design was just much better, but the materials and procedures for assembly were poor for the most part.

I also think the design could have been further improved on top of using better quality materials would've been the addition of an adjustable gas system like the SVT-38 and SVT-40 have. I'd also like to know how these modern reproduction G43s are by SSD, too bad they can't be imported.

http://www.ssd-weapon.com/k-43.html

If the G/43 had been developed and improved for a decade like the M1 rifle it would be a different story. I believe most of the problems with the G43 stem from an over powered gas system and quality control issues. How about a roller locked G43 in 8mm Kurz?

Gearhead1432 said:

If the G/43 had been developed and improved for a decade like the M1 rifle it would be a different story. I believe most of the problems with the G43 stem from an over powered gas system and quality control issues. How about a roller locked G43 in 8mm Kurz?

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Roller locked was the right way to go as the concept had proven itself in the MG42. That's the direction Mauser went with the Geraet06. They subsequently got rid of the entire gas system using roller locked delayed blowback. In the end it morphed from there into the StG45 and the G3.

Well, I once asked this same question of a German vet, who had one during the war, and his answer was "it could be used as a good club too!". Apparenty, when he really needed it, it jammed on him and he had to use it as a club at that point. Needless to say, he was not very impressed with the rifle he had.

builttoughf350 said:

This is just something I am curious about, was it pretty common DURING WW2 for G43 / K43 rifles to fail ?

Nowadays almost everyone knows not to shoot them without a shooters kit, but was it a widely known problem for the Germans in '44-'45 ?

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That's the oddly cool thing about these rifles. They had the potential to be a real problem for Germany's enemies, but due to the conditions and such, they were such a poor rifle. Makes the story of these rifles just that much more interesting.

See two pictures of an up-to-date construction: A better extractor (as G3) and a better safety:





Claus

I always assumed that they had a parts kit in the butt for a reason. After having several before anyone heard of a shooter's kit, I also assume there is a shooter's kit for a reason.

Since the gas system was designed, in part, based on the SVT, why some adjustment was not incorporated is a bit puzzling to me. Especially in light of the various climates and conditions they were going to be forced to serve. The need for a full power semi-auto was apparently seen as fairly urgent, with the SVT on one front and the Garand on others. The G43 was good enough and cheaper and easier to produce than many options so get it to the troops. I suspect that if Hitler would have been behind the MP43/STG44 from the onset there would have been many more STGs and less G-43s. There were simply too many studies and after action reports to show that a full power 8mm was so often not needed and a select fire weapon firing an intermediate cartridge with a high capacity mag was the way of the future.

The G/K43 is a great piece of history, nice collectable but would not be my choice in WW2 combat as an infantry rifle nor as a sniper. Additionally, even today, a semi-auto is much more difficult to make into a precision sniper rifle and more expensive to do so. That is why so few countries have gone semi-auto for their snipers. The Soviets learned this lesson by the fall of 1942. When the US adapted the M2010 in 300 WM, it was tested at 0.8 MOA while the Barrett 50 in semi was giving 2.5 MOA. When Special Ops recently adapted the Remington Modular Precision Rifle system in 7,62 Nato, 300 WM and 3.38 LM(quick change barrels and bolts) no semi was seriously considered. Accuracy in all 3 cals was sub-MOA.

Had the Germans been able to capture Dieudonné Saive or his plans/prototype of what turned out to be the FN-49 when they overan Liege in 1940, how interesting semi-auto history might have been.

KJ

mike radford said:

That is why so few countries have gone semi-auto for their snipers. The Soviets learned this lesson by the fall of 1942.

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Didn't the Soviets eventually move to the Dragunov?

actiondan said:

Didn't the Soviets eventually move to the Dragunov?

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Yes, in 1963. They have bolt action rifle options and the SVD. They use Desginated Marksman tactics more than most armies but the SVD will do fairly well in the sniper role as well. The design is much more solid than prior semi-auto snipers and has an adjustable gas system. The receiver is milled steel, the bore is chrome lined, the scope has IR capability, the scope also has range estimation and trajectory compensation. Night vision is available and a quick change out. Quite an improvement over prior semi-auto snipers but still not bolt action accurate. Strangely enough, PUs showed up in recent conflicts involving the RF, not to mention Afganistan and others that were Russian supplied.

Anyone besides me recall the HK-91s being $2000-2500 while the sniper version was $12500. The HK 91s I have fired, with match ammo and decent optics, are 2.5MOA rifles on a good day. The Sniper version is just under MOA and 5 times the cost. Making a semi keep up with a bolt gun accuracy wise cost quite a bit of cash and effort. There is simply more bang for the buck with the bolt guns. Since a sniper should be one shot, one kill, who needs the semi. That said, I love the SR-25, which will do sub-MOA no problem and not super expensive.

Where the semi auto sniper system comes in handy is where you could have multiple targets or you need a quick follow up shot. The PSG1 is expensive because there is much more to it than the average Hk91. I think the prices you are quoting are more in line with restricted US imports and such and not what an LE or the military would actually pay for these rifles. The PSG1 would be much more expensive than a typical G3 sup'ed up in a sniper role.

The G3 was also seen with a Hensoldt 4x scope. A good rifle but not really a sniper rifle.

BTW: The SVT40 gas adjustment screw sooted up, and the small key for adjustment disappeared easily. I think that was why the Germans dropped the idea about adjustment. Instead the system was set at full power.

German Army had no issues using service grad 198g RWS ID . It was designed for that , and gas system was left open for more sever conditions on Eastern front. Lets not pass judgment with all g43 codes. There is historical evidence with certain code had problems, BCD code shared common QC issues but that wasn't due to design. Now the reason we all have one shooter grade and have SS gas system is to increase the service years and enjoy them. BTW many collectors don't even shoot their valuable g43.

Rifle is way too valuable and replacement parts are getting harder to find. I see many shooter grade MM G43, on GB now days, for 1,700.

Another informative post.



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