Mauser Oberndorf 1910 rifle - Turkish?

[Absolut]

This rifle was sold to me as a Turkish Mauser rifle, for having the crescent in various places stamped on the rifle. It seems there is a very small batch of these rifles within an extremely close serial range (maybe 7800-7850?) where these rifles surface. They all seem to be in excellent condition, hence maybe very little used.

A detail I noticed on my rifle is that the rifle was duffle cut under the rear band what was repaired - see the pictures. I therefore had considered the gun to be a wartime bringback, since it also lacks any import marks or firing proofs.

I'd appreciate any opinions whether this rifle now is a Turkish contract rifle from WWI, or where else these rifles were actually intended for. Caliber is 7.65 Turkish. Note that the barrel bands on the right side also have acceptance stamps which though are not crescents.

PS: yes, I know I could had cleaned the rifle better prior to taking the pictures. The front barrel band though is stuck and had not found time to bring it to the workshop for some tools to pull it, therefore I also did not bother to clean off the dried up grease from the rear sight and the bolt.

 

[chrisftk]

Hi Georg,

I think that is a Paraguay contract Mauser that was sent to Turkey as aid.

My understanding is that, much like the Mod 1907 Chinese rifles on hand in 1914 these were appropriated/purchased by the German government from Mauser inventory for the war effort, as rifles were in short supply upon mobilization. The Chinese contract ones were standard length actions and were reworked to 7.92x57 and had the sights staked to 400m. (I posted one of those I bought about a year ago)

On the Paraguayans though, the actions were intermediate length, so the Germans did not want them. The fact that they were in 7.65 was also appropos to sending them to the ottomans.

Maybe others can fill in the gaps, but that is the basic story. *Edit-- ok, I was mistaken, still a neat rifle.

!

 

[cj556]

The gun Chris is referring to is a different model. That was a Paraguayan 1907 with added stripper clip guides. Those guns were used by the Ottomans. I’ve seen this model before, Ohio Ordnance works sold one last year as I recall. These were similar to the Ottoman 1903 with Turkish leftover parts but sold to other countries it is theorized (South American likely? but that could be wrong) I’ll do some digging and find more.

 

[chrisftk]

The gun Chris is referring to is a different model. That was a Paraguayan 1907 with added stripper clip guides. Those guns were used by the Ottomans. I’ve seen this model before, Ohio Ordnance works sold one last year as I recall. These were similar to the Ottoman 1903 with Turkish leftover parts but sold to other countries it is theorized (South American likely? but that could be wrong) I’ll do some digging and find more.

Marc, Thanks for the clarification on that, I assumed it was Paraguayan, as those were the ones the Germans didn't keep for themselves. I hadn't really thought of parts being assembled into rifles too.

Either way a damn cool piece in great shape.

 

[cj556]

Perhaps Falgrunt or Boilerop can offer better insight too

 

[Fal Grunt]

I saw talks on 1910 marked rifle and can say this is commercial example made up from inventory Turkish parts. Action is the 1903 Intermediate with High Clip guide. Contract on these was 200,000 units and last lots sold out in 1909. The Paraguay model 1907 was an Intermediate System with No high clip guide. As ww1 started contract for Paraguay was for 10,000 units 7.65. All these were taken over by German military and sent to Turkey who used the 7.65 round. In Turkey they added Clip guide unit etc. Thanks, Jon

Jon saw it before me and sent me the above comments. Depending on what you paid for the rifle, I would not be disappointed with it as an example. It is in far better condition than most Turk's and is all matching. Original examples in 7.65 are difficult to find, and this is a superb example. If you take the barrel off, please add photo's of the barrel markings.

You raise an interesting point about the serial number range. Very few of this configuration are seen. I am not on my shop computer at the moment, which has all my files on it, but I have only a handful of examples. As you noted most are in very good condition.

 

[chrisftk]

I saw talks on 1910 marked rifle and can say this is commercial example made up from inventory Turkish parts. Action is the 1903 Intermediate with High Clip guide. Contract on these was 200,000 units and last lots sold out in 1909. The Paraguay model 1907 was an Intermediate System with No high clip guide. As ww1 started contract for Paraguay was for 10,000 units 7.65. All these were taken over by German military and sent to Turkey who used the 7.65 round. In Turkey they added Clip guide unit etc. Thanks, Jon

Jon saw it before me and sent me the above comments. Depending on what you paid for the rifle, I would not be disappointed with it as an example. It is in far better condition than most Turk's and is all matching. Original examples in 7.65 are difficult to find, and this is a superb example. If you take the barrel off, please add photo's of the barrel markings.

You raise an interesting point about the serial number range. Very few of this configuration are seen. I am not on my shop computer at the moment, which has all my files on it, but I have only a handful of examples. As you noted most are in very good condition.

Great info, thanks!

 

[Absolut]

@Fal Grunt I still did not gather what this now really is. Jon in his comment called it a commercial rifle, you in the next sentence call it a Turkish rifle. Is it now a Commercial rifle that made its way to Turkey?

I'd appreciate feedback from your serial list, I really wonder what these rifles were used for since all in such mint condition and within a very close serial range. Wasn't there a small contract for Sultan's guard or something like this? Maybe they originate from there, could explain why so little (ab)used.

 

[Fal Grunt]

This is a commercial rifle built from left over Turkish contract parts. It is in effect, all Turkish parts, however it was not assembled for the Turkish contract, as such it does not bear the inspection marks for a completed rifle, including the Tughra that a Turkish rifle would have.

Mauser made, in modern terms, prolific amounts of spare parts. This is in many ways a shrewd business decision. The setup labor and materials to do so, are born by the contract. To keep your skilled laborers employed and add extra inventory is, at that point, a matter of over head and materials. This provides ample replacement parts for your newly finished contract, as well as parts for your assemblers to stay busy building commercial examples, and ample spares for the commercial industry and other gunmakers.

A random side note, "contract" parts turn up everywhere. Commercial Mauser rifles, Trials rifles, other countries contract rifles, K98's, etc.

 

[Absolut]

Thanks for your opinion. Hence to your opinion it would therefore be impossible to tell who actually received/used my rifle? Any comment from your side regarding the duffle cut on my rifle?

 

[Fal Grunt]

The duffle cut certainly seems to imply that it was a bring back to the US, and it is a odd cut for sure.

As far as identifying where exactly it went, as of today there is no way to nail that down. One of my someday "want to do" projects would be to work with Jon on some of these smaller commercial contracts. Problem is the rifles built are often times varied, and examples are scarce. I looked at some of the commercial "military" rifles that I have saved and they vary greatly based on the parts they consumed, and I do not have enough to establish any logic or order.... if there is any logic or order to establish!