Reproduction Sling with Original Hardware Thread

[Aaron]

As we quickly are acquiring more parts to start sling production, we want to improve the final results even more. We are hoping to be able to offer any variation in manufacture markings and construction, so we need references for that.

Looking through this sub forum, I could not find any comprehensive studies on known manufacturer markings, but we would be in need ofdimensions and fonts.
We are also looking to find known construction variations so we can make any variation of sling for you guys.

Info needed preferably with photos:
-known maker codes, ink stamps and die stamps (with dimensions if possible since we will be making custom ink stamps). This includes formal full names, 3 letter codes, dates, and anything in between along with where they are stamped on the sling
-known waffenamts/proofs with dimensions (if possible)
-known construction variations. ground, hashed, unhashed buckles, roll marked and uncheckered slings, sewn with 3 or 2 lines, riveted, folded "stg44" styles, and any oddities.
-known years of introduction/redaction of any construction features and markings

The books and many of the threads have given us a great start, but a comprehensive reference being built under this thread would be greatly appreciated.

The only real way to get any deductive answers for above will simply by studying volume, so post any and all slings you are willing.

Rare and unique slings are welcome as reproductions are probably the only way many people will ever get to have one.

 

[Scharf]

Hello!

I don't quite get the goal here, is it to make a database so that we can study original slings and learn more about them to collect them or is it simply about giving out specifics of original slings so that reproductions are made out of them? Because if that's the case that sounds scary to me. Anyways I'm sorry if I've misread what you were saying, but please enlighten me. Thank you.

 

[Aaron]

Hello!

I don't quite get the goal here, is it to make a database so that we can study original slings and learn more about them to collect them or is it simply about giving out specifics of original slings so that reproductions are made out of them? Because if that's the case that sounds scary to me. Anyways I'm sorry if I've misread what you were saying, but please enlighten me. Thank you.

Right now they are only made on a one-off basis for reenactors who supply their own hardware. The goal is to make usable slings for collectors since originals cannot under any circumstance be used or stored on rifles without damage occurring especially on the rear band area. We have plenty of info so far, but are looking for examples that collectors may want reproduced for their own rifles, and to expand our knowledge on sling variations. This is for people who don't want or can't afford original slings for use on rifles, especially rarer codes and construction types. If there is any malicious use/frauds to come out of this, it can only be from forum members lying about their slings when they go to sell them. Seeing every sling buyer will be recorded and the sling they are sold photographed that likely can't happen. There are plenty of fakes already just like everything else in this hobby, and anyone and everyone with malicious intent already has access to all the threads in this forum, so its more to help save time on our end, since I can get everything we are looking for but at a slower pace by just going through all the sling threads. Preventing this product from reaching other collectors won't change that. Examples of slings and froschs already in-hand are posted here: https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/wtb-original-sling-hardware-parts.48938/

 

[Scharf]

Hello!

Well thank you for the feedback now I understand much better. I will try to share details of my Adalbert fischer sling, I have an early reichsheer sling as well but I have yet to find it in my mess.

 

[bruce98k]

I would advise you guys to add some detail that makes identification of these reproductions easy while not deterring from the look.
An ink stamp or some small indicator should be impressed.
If you guys start marking these with codes and dates, I would have a problem with that if no manufacturing ID is applied.

You are proceeding down the rabbit hole here if the current path is maintained.

 

[Benny65]

Maybe consider a small brand in a hidden area, something difficult to remove. Shuff's does this on reproduction M1 stocks.
List and records can be lost to time. Future collectors 20 years from now could unknowingly start trading them as originals.

 

[Aaron]

The maker and I spoke today, and we've decided to utilize a fake early type marking factory name, fake 3 letter code, and an unused WaA number yet to be determined. This helps simplify things too as we only need 6 sets of stamps, for impressed and ink WaA, code, and name

For anyone looking for real codes to go with a certain style sling (for example the riveted cey sling) we would simply charge slightly more to offset the cost of making a stamp set. Any slings with real markings applied will have the buyer recorded and photos of the sling posted in the thread, that will be created to sell the slings on the forum.

We are still looking for any info on marking trends to determine what style markings were used in what years most frequently.
1. Factory name/location
1.a. factory name/location and full year
1.b. ink or impress stamp
1.c. with or without WaA
2. factory 3 letter code
2.a. three factory letter code and full year
2.b. three letter factory code and L2D year
2.c. ink or impress stamp
2.d. with or without WaA
3. RBNr
3.a. ink or impress stamp
4. anything in between

 

[Aaron]

We are currently in the process of manufacturing a trial run, with myself joining in the manufacture efforts in the next few weeks.

What we need is to see some styles of stamps so we can make a fictional maker code that cannot be taken as real. We will be making two sets, one with a never used 3 letter code and interchangeable dates, and another with a full name. If there is demand, we can expand into things like a made-up RBNr or the Kar. stamp seen on earlier stuff.

1. I would like help with a design, seeing examples of stylized stamps would help us pick one to fill out with our names.
2. What 3 processes was most common to see during what time periods, stamped, inked, stamped and inked.
3. I have only ever seen ink stamps for the Kar. marking, has anyone seen any others?
4. At what points were full and abbreviated dates used, and when were they introduced/removed? For example 1944 can be stamped as a full date, as 44, or uniquely to the year, just 4. You don't see anything marked 8 for just 1938, but you also don't see anything marked as 1945, just 45

 

[CanadianAR]

I think making a real good quality sling with original hardware is good enough. I would also not endorse putting on a wartime marking .
I made some random gifts for a couple guys and just made up my own coding.
sfw20

Schaefer Flask-Werke 2020

LOL

That way, it’s an indicator as to being new made, but still has a marking that’s in the wartime format and location.

 

[Aaron]

I think making a rest food quality sling with original hardware is good enough. I would also not endorse putting on a wartime marking .
I made some random gifts for a couple guys and just made up my own coding.
sfw20

Schaefer Flask-Werke 2020

LOL

That way, it’s an indicator as to being new made, but still has a marking that’s in the wartime format and location.

That's exactly what we are doing, we are making a made-up code and factory using our names. What we are looking for is some graphic design options like how the writing was stylized or put into various border styles. We need to mark the slings because they look so good, leaving them unmarked would be more risky to having authentic codes applied. By marking ours with ink and dies, you would have to grind way the old marking, a dead giveaway.

Again, we cannot be responsible for people taking our work and faking markings, our goal is to make that impossible by applying our own first.

With how much backlash this has gotten with us just trying to bring something really needed to the hobby, I would expect the admins to close the trader because of the amount of authentic rifles that have sold there (and especially off the forum) only to reappear with fake markings. We've had guys on here for years, some of our best and brightest members, making and selling desperately needed parts like kriegsmodell screws and caps, and guys who refinish stocks or salvage them to the point where you cannot tell they were ever touched. None of these items that can be discerned from original examples ever came under scrutiny because its irrational to try and control. The only way to stop fakes would be to end the hobby period, shut down the forum because it is an excellent source of info for fakers, and dispose of all k98s. I know none of us will do that, so lets look at some ACTUAL proactive solutions here.

 

[mrfarb]

Your original post said you were going to duplicate markings from original slings, not use made up markings. Substantially different than your current idea.

 

[Aaron]

Your original post said you were going to duplicate markings from original slings, not use made up markings. Substantially different than your current idea.

and as of my post on Dec 23rd 2 days after this project was proposed we deferred to community concerns and would be utilizing fantasy maker codes, unless anyone was really keen on getting an original code their purchase would be recorded and publicly posted to the forum, more than anyone has ever been asked to do for any repro/refurbished items offered here before. Short of putting R-FID chips in the slings there is not much else we can do to help keep the community safe while offering authentic slings, as blank ones are an invitation for aftermarket stampings. By us ink and impressed stamping them, a large chunk of material would need to be ground away and restamped, something that cannot even be done to the frosch without damaging the skin side leather and would impossible to conceal on the suede-side of the sling itself.

I am not hear to argue and fight, half the guys in this thread alone including you have helped me with parts for projects that I had been hunting for years.
I have made so many friends here and everything I have learned is owed to your books and this forum.
I owe this forum everything pertaining to K98's in my life.
This project is my way of trying, as a new collector with not much in terms of parts or info to offer (still don't own a single all matching example rifle to contribute) to give something back to the community by offering something that we have all dreamed of, an authentic sling that can be used on a rifle without being destroyed.

Looking back, saying fake may still be construed with fake, as in authentic code but being postwar applied. I'd like to reaffirm to all here that these are FANTASY codes, using letter combos and a Factory name that did not at any point exist.

 

[CanadianAR]

Good idea to use your own. I think it’s cooler anyways.
Ink is useless , I’d get a die made or letter set. Or branding is smart.

 

[Aaron]

Good idea to use your own. I think it’s cooler anyways.
Ink is useless , I’d get a die made or letter set. Or branding is smart.

The plan is to make a master die with our fantasy code (one full and one and 3 letter) and an interchangeable date block. We are going with deep irremovable markings that cannot be scrubbed out, alongside archive permanent ink. We just need font sizes and some graphic design examples for how to orientate the "company name"

 

[CanadianAR]

I’ve never had a early sling with markings clear enough to really be of help.
Some are very similar to early pouches , kind of an oval stamp.

 

[Aaron]

I’ve never had a early sling with markings clear enough to really be of help.
Some are very similar to early pouches , kind of an oval stamp.

For three letter codes its easy enough, and bergflak has been a huge help, but the format is dated and its hard to get a quality photo to draw dimensions. the oval stamps especially seem common and I can snag those from any ammo pouch but I think we will be going with a larger full wreathed company name to ensure it cant be removed easily

 

[bruce98k]

Suggest you look at early frog markings. Many of those small firms also made slings.

 

[Aaron]

It has been awhile and owe you all an update. Good news is the slings are progressing still, but at a decreased pace for Kurt since he is working lots of overtime. Myself on the other-hand, have finally gotten enough practice in to make these to the standards expected. We currently are building up inventory for a small release. If the forum likes them, we'll make more. We hope to have a few varieties such as stitched and unstitched frosch, 2 row and 3 row, etc. Our biggest hurdle will be getting a die stamp made to mark our slings to prevent fraud.

 

[Aaron]

Looking for a clear front and back photo of the 2 row stitching style and abbreviated third row style for later slings.

I cannot find any on the forum that are clear enough.

Especially needed is detailed pictures on the crossover stitch between rows in slings.

There are some wonky ones out there and I'd love to have some variety to offer for ya'll besides the usual X pattern and twist patterns seen on the very bottom of sling stitches

 

[Aaron]

Its been a month and production has been very slow but steady. I'm hoping to have a small release for late Fall.
Some examples using an early/prewar knurled roller buckle, a midwar ground buckle, and a latewar unground buckle.
All 3 examples have different stitching patterns and dye applications I was playing around with, with more options available as examples are supplied by you all.