The first Mauser B series .22 rifles and the "Grooved" ES 340B

[mauser22]

As for pinning down any change in design features, I have never seen an instance where there was a clean break in the serial number range. There is always some overlap. Many collectors attribute this to the "bottom of the bin" theory, which makes sense. As a component went through the process up to serial numbering later configuration parts likely were placed in the pile and some new configuration components were completed prior to the previous version. Also as production caught up with demand parts were shelved until needed to meet orders. On the centerfire sporters for example, receivers for less popular or more expensive variations laid in inventory for decades before being pulled, serial numbered and built into rifles.

 

[Absolut]

A lot of Mauser .22 experts in here, I hope you can help me with my two Mauser .22 rifles. I had to take them among a whole estate and never paid much attention to them, so hope to learn more on them. A friend told me what he thought the model designations were, can someone confirm if they are correct?

First one is a single shot rifle with a longer and heavy barrel which I've been told is a ES430B. It still has the Mauser logo on the stock, the metal buttplate has the same Mauser logo on it. I originally took the 459 on the barrel for the proof date, so April (19)59 (which doesn't really fit with the pre war proof, I know), but I've been told this is incorrect. What do they mean then? Also found a stamp on the barrel at the front, shown in the last picture.

 

[Absolut]

Second is what I've been told a MM410B rifle, multi shot with a detachable Mauser marked magazine. This one also has the Mauser logo on the (bakelite?) buttplate. Stock has additional checkering in the grip area, is this original factory? Mauser logo in the stock is stamped as yesterday.

When were these rifles made approx.?

 

[mauser22]

A lot of Mauser .22 experts in here, I hope you can help me with my two Mauser .22 rifles. I had to take them among a whole estate and never paid much attention to them, so hope to learn more on them. A friend told me what he thought the model designations were, can someone confirm if they are correct?

First one is a single shot rifle with a longer and heavy barrel which I've been told is a ES430B. It still has the Mauser logo on the stock, the metal buttplate has the same Mauser logo on it. I originally took the 459 on the barrel for the proof date, so April (19)59 (which doesn't really fit with the pre war proof, I know), but I've been told this is incorrect. What do they mean then? Also found a stamp on the barrel at the front, shown in the last picture.

The first one is an ES340B.

The "459" refers to the bore not the proof date.

The second is an MM410B

 

[albmarktplaats]

Hello Jim,

Good that I found this topic on the K98k forum. I just posted some info on this ES340B rifle with grooved barrel on RFC forum.
I also have a rifle like this in my collection. See pictures. It's a nice example that I found in Germany this year.
This month I will take it apart for cleaning and further research. You can add the serial number in your charts.
If I found strange things I will let you know. It's a very nice rifle and I'm curious how it shoots after all those years.

You already got more info on the K letter? I also asked a Dutch Mauser pistol collector if he knows something about this K letter.

Enjoy collecting this fine rifles!

Alb.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Interesting, thanks for sharing that one.

 

[eurydice]

And just a thought on the MS420N's with same grooved barrel, those would have been made within weeks of the first B series guns and perhaps, those barrels were left overs used up on the first ES340B's??? Makes sense doesn't it. I was not aware of those and thanks for sharing that.

mauser22,
Today, I had a closer look to the "grooved barrel" MS420N. I measured the barrel length, from the action to the muzzle and got 664 (sixty four) mils; I measured as well an ES350B and found 654 (fifty four) mils; got the same value on the "grooved barrel" ES340B. The B serie's barrel lenght given by mauser is 680mm (including ±25mm threated inserted into the action - the measurements, that I made, make sense). My opinion : "N" serie's grooved barrel is neither a "un-numbered" ES350B one nor a ES350N one (see below)

I have 3 of the grooved models, an es340n, an ms420n and an es340b of which you have the number listed. The sights look identical til you look at the method of attachment. The “n” models sights are slid on from the rear of the receiver , both the attachment rails are solid and continuous. The es340b sight is placed on its rail using the cutouts in the rail, its sight has to have cutouts that corespond to these cutouts. The “b” sight can be used on the “n” models but not vice versa. ( can be slight variations in the tolerances of course)

The barrels on my “n” models are the heavier profiles of the 350n

oldwing,
I also measured (from the action to the muzzle) a ES350N (rotate safety) barrel and got 634mils; if the profile looks the same the lenghtes are different . Could you please either confirm or infirm my measurements by measuring your ES340N, MS420N and ES340B grooved barrels lengthes

mauser 22,
in your archive, do you have any evidence that, sometimes, Mauser company did outsourced its barrels?

Kind regards

 

[oldwing]

eurydice, I measured the barrels of my 3 grooved barrel variants along with a typical ES350B and a ES340B , The measurements are shown in the photo. Simply used a tape measure and measured from the action to the crown. That is interesting that your ES350N has a shorter barrel. Edit.. I just measured an ES340N and it has about the same shorter measurement as your ES350n . Your opinion that these are not simply un-numbered ES350N barrels seems to be valid .at leas

 

[mauser22]

I have seen no evidence that Mauser out sourced barrels for .22 models.

Only in the case of the KKW have I encountered any evidence that Mauser MAY HAVE out sourced any .22 components. In fact they planned to at the time the agreement on co-production of the KKW with BSW/Walther and Erma was done. Whether or not they actually did is uncertain.

I would not rule out the possibility that DSM bands and butt plates were out sourced.

 

[eurydice]

eurydice, I measured the barrels of my 3 grooved barrel variants along with a typical ES350B and a ES340B , The measurements are shown in the photo. Simply used a tape measure and measured from the action to the crown. That is interesting that your ES350N has a shorter barrel. Edit.. I just measured an ES340N and it has about the same shorter measurement as your ES350n . Your opinion that these are not simply un-numbered ES350N barrels seems to be valid .at leasView attachment 308254

Thanks,
I measured the "Un-grooved" barrel length of my MS420N : 634mm

Edit : This "Un-grooved" MS420N has the lowest s/n104xxx I recorded for MS420N. It could be interesting to have the barrel length of a "Un-grooved" MS420N in the 11xxxx s/n range.

2nd Edit : Just realized a typing error in my data base the s/n is not 104xxx but 114xxx. I should have checked on the rifle - Sorry

Above grooved MS420N

 

[eurydice]

Was sure to have this one ES340N grooved s/n 130xxx
Barrel length 645mils....
Oldwing,
Does yours have the same trigger guard?

 

[oldwing]

Eurydice, yes, my es340n grooved barrel has that same triggerguard. It also has a smooth trigger where my ms420n grooved has a grooved trigger. If i remember correctly Jon Speed shows a similar es340n in a photo in his book but did not elaborate on it.

as a side note of this rifle, the Mauser logo on has a gold colored decal or such covering it. I bought it as such and never tried to remove it. It seems the stamp is intact under the cover.

 

[Razvan]

Dear Jim and all,

Thank you for this extremely informative exchange - I found it absolutely fantastic. I actually saved it all as later reference.

I wonder if I can throw it another element please hopefully for your clarifications. I have been told that the Mauser I have just agreed to buy is a ESB340B and I was quite happy to own such an iconic piece. From reading and re-reading your posts it would appear that is not as the serial number does not fall into the range suggested here: 181406

I was hoping to attach a 1930' high mounted Zeiss ZielKlein scope to it but if the rifle is nowhere near that old (more like a 60'?), that kind of scope would be totally incorrect.

So what have I actually got? ESB? DSM?

Many thanks to you all.

Razvan

 

[Fal Grunt]

As with their commercial rifles, I do not think that Mauser followed a strict serial numbering system. If anything, the rule is that there is no rule. Until we get a larger segment of the rifles, we won't know.

My opinion is that this rifle is a pre war (30's era) ES 340B.

If your not going to keep the diopter I would potentially be interested in it.

thanks

 

[oldwing]

Yes, an es340b. It has the oval loading port that may have been incorporated into the series in 1936 and made at least til the early WWll years. ( assuming the es340b port and bolt changed about the same time as the dsm36 changes occurred) Is the front sight a Parker-Hale? Is there a couple of English proofs on the right side of the barrel and receiver? A small joke as if it is English prooved there will be many stampings.

 

[eurydice]

Mauser22, Oldwing,

I took several pictures of actions : ES340N, ES340N "early improved trigger" and ES340N "grooved barrel".
Here below :
Above ES340N, below ES340N "early improved trigger and action"

Here below :
ES340N grooved barrel

The most interesting is that:
The ES340N "early improved trigger" presents an intermediate improved action with an early improved trigger. It's s/n is 81xxx
The ES340N "grooved barrel" presents a "N" action with an early improved trigger. It's s/n is 79xxx
I'm lost. Perhaps could your expertise help me!

 

[Razvan]

Yes, an es340b. It has the oval loading port that may have been incorporated into the series in 1936 and made at least til the early WWll years. ( assuming the es340b port and bolt changed about the same time as the dsm36 changes occurred) Is the front sight a Parker-Hale? Is there a couple of English proofs on the right side of the barrel and receiver? A small joke as if it is English prooved there will be many stampings.

Hello and apologies for late reply - just spotted your comment. Yes the diopter and the front sights ar Parker Hale. Which confuses me a tad: why would Mauser equip their competition rifles with Parker Hale optics, or any other optics, other than their own Mauser optics?

 

[oldwing]

Mauser22, Oldwing,

I took several pictures of actions : ES340N, ES340N "early improved trigger" and ES340N "grooved barrel".
Here below :
Above ES340N, below ES340N "early improved trigger and action"
View attachment 325456
Here below :
ES340N grooved barrel
View attachment 325457
The most interesting is that:
The ES340N "early improved trigger" presents an intermediate improved action with an early improved trigger. It's s/n is 81xxx
The ES340N "grooved barrel" presents a "N" action with an early improved trigger. It's s/n is 79xxx
I'm lost. Perhaps could your expertise help me!

Greetings eurydice. I’ve only ran across a handful of the es340n grooved barrel rifles but all have been consistent in their details. All had very high serial numbers, indicating the last of the “N” model production. All were on the rotate safety action. Your much lower numbered early 79xxx slide action safety “N” action certainly does not fit expectations. Does your rifle ,79xxx, have the un-numbered barrel grooves and use the removable set-screw rear sight?

 

[eurydice]

It was not fitted with the original rear sight. The rear sight was an ES350 one installed on the action (one of the reasons I bought it, I need a windage screw and, never mind, spare parts!) The rear signt is not numbered to the rifle.
The barrel is grooved like an ES350 not numbered but the two slots for rear sight installation are on the left side, with another distance in between them than an ES350...impossible to install neither another grooved barrel rear sight nor ES350's one. There is no hole in between of the two barrel's grooves to set the rear sight position. If it was sold with a rear sight fitting on the barrel, this rear sight type is for me unknowned)
The action, barrel, bolt, stock and safety are correctly numbered (three last digit for safety, bolt and stock).
The stock could be ES350's same type, a realy nice waldnut wood piece(another reason : beautiful!)
Don't hesitate to request more pictures and measurements.

For fun, I installed a Hensold Wetzlar Diapi Lang 2.5x17 reticle 1, as you can see. I made some (in fact a lot) shoots. Woaw, a 50 round box of RWS Rifle Match, a few to sight the scope (around 5), 4 shoots to check min an max height elevation (without un-tightening the turret's locker : 20centimeters) and the rest is giving a hole of a litlle bit less than an Inch (but two flyers, my fault!); all done at ± 54 Yards.

Sorry for the poor quality of the following picture,


Edit : Barrel's picture

Another one : above 340B Grooved below 340N

 

[oldwing]

Very confusing details with your rifle. The top of the receiver appears to be a typical es340n, that is, the it has not been milled down to allow the rear sight to be placed on the receiver grooves then slid up and on the barrel grooves as with the es350n. The barrel grooves of your rifle appear to end as they approach the receiver like a “b” model. I see your sight problem, but like you, have no answer. Other features seem to make it an es350n. Hopefully others have input on this rifle. And it is a good looking and shooting rifle.