Another Kar98a

Hi guys, this section hasn't had much activity the last couple weeks, so here's something to hopefully start a conversation.

I picked this up here on the forum trader, but I haven't seen it previously posted, so I thought I'd do a full spread on it. I'm a big fan of republican era rebuilds and have a few of these 98a ones now.

This 1916 Erfurt was rebuilt in the interwar period with a hodgepodge of spare parts. Most parts were re-serialized (very crudely). The non-matched parts I could see are the two screws and trigger/sear and the handguard. This is one of the rougher rebuilds I've seen quality-wise.

The receiver looks to have been scrubbed on the left side/ re-numbered (and eagle scrubbed) during the rebuild as well. The bolt body re-numbering is particularly sloppy and the proofs on the triggerguard were removed as well.

Looks like there may have been a unit mark on top of the buttplate but it was scrubbed.

In any case, I hope you enjoy. Thanks for looking.



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More pics

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It is kind of an unconventional rework and the inter war explanation I think is a good one.
All in all, I think it's pretty cool.

Hi chris, this a Kar98a in very good condition . You got it from Marcus, right ?
As I see that the stock has a disc and finger grooves, it has been made in or after 1917.
Does anyone know the earliest recorded/observed Kar 98a with finger grooves and disc ?
Storz writes it kicks in beginning of 1917, but I guess it didn't happen overnight, on New Year's day and there may be some Erfurt 1916 with such features.
I have a "no block" 1917 and it got those things.

Guillaume d'Orange said:

Hi chris, this a Kar98a in very good condition [emoji106]. You got it from Marcus, right ?
As I see that the stock has a disc and finger grooves, it has been made in or after 1917.
Does anyone know the earliest recorded/observed Kar 98a with finger grooves and disc ?
Storz writes it kicks in beginning of 1917, but I guess it didn't happen overnight, on New Year's day and there may be some Erfurt 1916 with such features.
I have a "no block" 1917 and it got those things.

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Yep, it was the one from Marcus.

The discs were added after the fact on the republican era reworks. (Not sure if grooves were) that is assuming there wasn't an original disc.

The earliest I have seen grooves or discs is the later part of 1916 and they show up with neither, one or both features through mid 1917. I have a 1917 beech with neither feature, for instance. Paul can probably speak more to specific letter blocks as I do not have access to my notes at the office. I do know the transition was not well defined as a progression and exceptions pop up throughout.

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Fantastic Chris, nice score

Barrel has no suffix? Either way it looks like a replacement also... Erfurt almost always used three acceptance stamps on barrels (mostly curious because it might be a wartime re-barrel). Danzig/18 typically used one,but Danzig & Erfurt have several distinctions of note. I would have to run this rifle against trends for Erfurt/16 to see if (how much) it varies from other Erfurt/16's in and around the h-block, but it is clearly not close to factory, - matter of fact I doubt it has a single part original to its mfg.

Does the LS of stock have "1920", probably not and this is reflective of its condition (basically a depot build, almost certainly police if genuine).

Once I can download and convert the pictures I will do some comparisons.

Just checked on the barrel, this is right for a Erfurt/16 (C/X is also right, as would BSI as it was very commonly used in this range), it was one acceptance on the barrel for 1916, this changed tothree in 1917, - also slightly less C/RC was in evidence in late 1917 & 1918, either Erfurt improved or the inspectors gave up!

Anyway, further trends comparisions are needed, but I did notice this fact and remembered my misstatement.

Hi Paul and thank you-- the LS of the stock does have a faint 1920 that I missed on my first look. Still, it's probably not the stock that was with this rifle when it was stamped in 1920. I think you are right.. total depot build from salvaged parts.



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The barrel is perfect for its range, so it is probably factory to the receiver, - I suppose it (exposed receiver) was restamped over its older, possibly fainter serial. The stock can't be original in any way, while walnut is the only possibility for such a rifle (beech is not a possibility prior to the u-v block), the grips are far too early for this rifles range (by a lot)

I can't imagine this not being period, probably some crude work by a police depot or some unit. The RM was very much in this practice, they could really perform some crude work and strange variations, including 98b varieties. The police formations and organizations are a vast and diverse subject. They were capable of high-quality work, often very intensive, they even seem to have made or contracted barrels for their purpose, often these have markings very similar to the S28 series and probably were DWM/Oberspree leftovers or contracts or at least the same inspectorate. I am not sure how to explain a relationship with DWM/Oberspree and making 98a barrels, but they often have similar markings. Possibly these were ordnance spare leftovers passed through a centralized facility, it was common for Germany to find discreet work-arounds and smaller versions of Imperial era institutions.

Anyway, its too bad there is no markings to weave a story around! Personally, this is my favorite era, certainly offering the best opportunities for rare and historically important variations. It is too bad it is the least well known, - entirely due to lacking a war - though it was an era of incredible savagery, bloodshed and ethnic strife and murder, most of which played a role in WWII's savagery and anything but the fault of Germans... but so few of us share Voltaire's view that history should be written by philosophers and the least important part of history are the generals and the vast wars.

You beat me to this rifle! I emailed Marcus that I’d take it, but he said it already had a buyer... Oh well, next time! Very nice score!

chrisftk said:

The earliest I have seen grooves or discs is the later part of 1916 and they show up with neither, one or both features through mid 1917. I have a 1917 beech with neither feature, for instance. Paul can probably speak more to specific letter blocks as I do not have access to my notes at the office. I do know the transition was not well defined as a progression and exceptions pop up throughout.

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Thank you Chris, that's what I thought. I would stop here as it is a bit off topic. I've read Paul's comments about your stock and it looks like whatever organisation used your rifle, it may have been equipped to add discs and grooves to any stock.

Loewe said:

either Erfurt improved or the inspectors gave up!

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I find this humorous because of how likely it is to have happened. Excellent discourse on an interesting rifle.

That's a sweet rifle!