MP43/I for sale in France

Hi everyone, a gunsmith in France is selling a piece "found" in an attic.
It is presented as an all-matching MP43/I , modified to semi-auto.
I won't buy it, but I post the pics for your enjoyment and to learn if it is indeed an original piece.
Looks like an MP44 to me, there's no "ce" but a e/37 : assembled by Sauer ?

Link to the gunsmith ad:
http://www.armurerie-grand-est.fr/produit.php?id=3217

More pics of the gun

MP 43s have rails on the side of the rear sight [you do not show] and have a much deeper stock.A closer look shows the rails.

I'd buy it.

All looks fine, there are some alterations, period or later to the serials, the one on the stock ferrule and the MP43/I lines thru is interesting. Lots of cleaning, rust removal, but, all that is fine and par the course - I'd buy this now if it was in front of me here for that price.

To make it semi-auto all they did was remove the op rod sear trip (and that not even completely)? I don't know if that's gonna fly with authorities.....

GunKraut said:

To make it semi-auto all they did was remove the op rod sear trip (and that not even completely)? I don't know if that's gonna fly with authorities.....

Click to expand...

It’s in Europe. I’m surprised it’s not welded solid.

It's a category B weapon that could be converted to the lesser Cat C (3 round mag.)
French Firearm laws - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms_regulation_in_France

Gunkraut - owning these weapons in Europe opens your premises to regular inspection, you wouldn't really want to go altering it too much.
There is no "right" to bear arms there, it's a privilege that can be revoked really easily.

That we still have the wonderful constitution here in the USA, is the reason so many European ex-pats love this country - me included.


See Charles IX of France statement to parliament in 1563 for a laugh.

Funny to see the "/1" lined out in the model designation. I wonder if that maybe really was a MP43/1 receiver that was completed to MP44 by Sauer? Thanks for sharing the link! One question for not being familiar with French laws: the seller offers conversion to Cat.C - does that mean he'd convert the gun to a straight pull bolt action rifle?

Re the price, consider this gun is in Europe and cannot be compared to US prices.

Hi guys, thanks for your replies.

I noticed that the op rod has a e/359 (?) may hint at Walther (W.z = Walther Zehla ?). The ad says that the barrel has been changed, that may explain why the distinctive muzzlenut to attach a Granatwerfer is gone, however the rails at the base of the rear sight seem to be there in one of the overview pics.
About the striked-through "/I", it has been observed on other guns:
https://www.espeholt.dk/mediearkiv/m44_c.pdf

About French categories, if it has been really found in attic, it was full-auto, hence catégorie A (weapon of war). I think the gunsmith shall have a special license to buy or own a full-auto (even if he will transform it later on). But that's his business.

Catégorie B is for semi-auto guns/rifles, you need a sport shooting license, declare the gun, get a 5-year license for the gun (to be renewed regularly).
Catégorie C is for manually repeating rifles like the K98k. To buy these, you have to be a hunter or sport shooter, but if you stop hunting or shooting, you will still own your gun, contrary to catégorie B.
If you stop shooting and own a catégorie B (or if you get sentenced before a court), you have to sell it or give it to police for destruction.

I'm a sport shooter, but would not put thousands of euros in a catégorie B, as basically you're renting the gun from the State. That's a pity, especially when it comes to historical rifles (won't mention the semi-auto conversion).
Before 2013, old military rifles (like K98k) in France were catégorie B and it was a serious drag for collectors. Now they are catégorie C.

GunKraut said:

To make it semi-auto all they did was remove the op rod sear trip (and that not even completely)? I don't know if that's gonna fly with authorities.....

Click to expand...

Gunkraut, when talking about sear trip, are you refering to the part circled in red ? I guess the gunsmith has taken the pic before doing anything.

Guillaume d'Orange said:

Gunkraut, when talking about sear trip, are you refering to the part circled in red ? I guess the gunsmith has taken the pic before doing anything.

Click to expand...

No, the modification is outside of you circle, roughly in the 1 'o clock position.

GunKraut said:

No, the modification is outside of you circle, roughly in the 1 'o clock position.

Click to expand...

Oh yes, thanks, I see now the traces of the grinder (circled in green).

Absolut said:

Funny to see the "/1" lined out in the model designation. I wonder if that maybe really was a MP43/1 receiver that was completed to MP44 by Sauer? Thanks for sharing the link! One question for not being familiar with French laws: the seller offers conversion to Cat.C - does that mean he'd convert the gun to a straight pull bolt action rifle?

Re the price, consider this gun is in Europe and cannot be compared to US prices.

Click to expand...

That's right Absolut, "catégorie C" means conversion to straight pull/manual repetition. I don't know how the gunsmith will achieve this : destroy the recoil spring and weld the spring channel ? destroy the gas piston ?

Is that easy to own one converted to semi-auto in Germany ?

It is an MP43 and not MP43 / 1 - / 1 is lined out. Note, among other things, the short muzzle nut. MP43 / 1 has a long muzzle nut.
Both Sauer and Haenel used WaA37, and I'm sure it's a Haenel construction as Haenel did not mark their weapons with "fxo" on the first part of their production.
Sauer started their production with the "p" block.

nahpatronen said:

It is an MP43 and not MP43 / 1 - / 1 is lined out. Note, among other things, the short muzzle nut. MP43 / 1 has a long muzzle nut.
Both Sauer and Haenel used WaA37, and I'm sure it's a Haenel construction as Haenel did not mark their weapon with "fxo" on the first part of their production.
Sauer started their production with the "p" block.

Click to expand...

Yes, it is presented as an MP43/1, but it is not : no long muzzle nut, barrel that has a shorter diameter towards the end and front sight base.
MP43 or MP44, I don't know, but it has been assembled in 1944 with an MP43/1 receiver.
I did not know about Sauer beginning with the "p" block, but, yes, surely Haenel as they were the biggest manufacturer anyway.

Guillaume d'Orange said:

Oh yes, thanks, I see now the traces of the grinder (circled in green).

Click to expand...

He has also welded the selector lever in the single shot position but it looks like the auto sear was not removed. Just left in place and welded to the left of the trigger pack. I guess he wasnt required to remove that part?
If it was converted to straight pull/single shot design I imagine the easiest way to do this would be to weld over or block the gas hole in the barrel and the gas block. Since the receiver lacks internal rails of any kind and the tolerances between the bolt, carrier and receiver are somewhat loose, I would leave the piston on the bolt to help as a guide. I would leave the main spring in place. But it all depends on what is legal where you live.

Intruder196 said:

He has also welded the selector lever in the single shot position but it looks like the auto sear was not removed. Just left in place and welded to the left of the trigger pack. I guess he wasnt required to remove that part?
If it was converted to straight pull/single shot design I imagine the easiest way to do this would be to weld over or block the gas hole in the barrel and the gas block. Since the receiver lacks internal rails of any kind and the tolerances between the bolt, carrier and receiver are somewhat loose, I would leave the piston on the bolt to help as a guide. I would leave the main spring in place. But it all depends on what is legal where you live.

Click to expand...

Thanks Intruder196, I see the weld on the selector button and he has also cut the selector spring.
You are right that altering the gas system without affecting the piston may be the easiest way to proceed to a straight pull conversion.
I don't know if gunsmiths in France have clear requirements from authorities about this kind of work : I guess the idea is to make sure it is not too easy for the average guy to reverse the conversion, here there are at least 3 modifications.