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Here’s an auction that is over I don’t understand

Tiger 2 Tank

Tiger 2 Tank

Senior Member
I don’t quite understand this auction:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887697822

The photos show a nice rifle. Good stock side proofs for an early rifle. It’s an early rifle with all the neat early features. Milled “cosmetic” French occupied receiver. But the photos don’t show the things needed to justify the price; such as are the bolt components matching, stock details (keel serial number, wrist stamp). Either the seller sent photos out individually to biders or they were just guessing and hoping it’s correct. Kind of a lot of money to be guessing with.
 
I was watching that too, just to see how it would do in comparison to the either “meh” examples or way overpriced rifles with issues (which are selling too). This one appears legit with no exception and, yes, it went for surprisingly good money based on the limited information in the auction images. Either potential buyers got more info from the seller or, I more suspect, that it went for more money because there have been few righteous G/K43s and this one appears to be among the nicest no excuse examples running. I expected 3K or a little more but not 4400. Prices have been lofty for any nice Mil surplus weapon of late and this one was no exception—I just hope for the buyer’s sake that it was a truly matching rifle.


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Joseph Burke said:
..Prices have been lofty for any nice Mil surplus weapon of late
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More ancedotal evidence. I watch a variety of Milsurp items to try and keep on top of how the market is. There was a Yugo underfolder parts kit exactly like hundreds that sold for $345 until they ran out early this fall. This one pulled $1025 in what appears to be a legit sale (no low power 'buyers' running up the price)
 
That would absolutely suck if someone paid $4k, got it home, checked it out only to find the internal bolt components or gas cylinder had wrong numbers. $4k is definitely a price tag on a rifle that has zero issues. Oh well, maybe it was a “no excuse rifle”. If it is, it’s a neat early one. Could be one with the wax papered parts and manual in the back too. Hopefully the new owner will have a good report for us and nice photos. Sure was a gamble though if the new owner didn’t have any other info than what was listed.
 
Tiger 2 Tank said:
That would absolutely suck if someone paid $4k, got it home, checked it out only to find the internal bolt components or gas cylinder had wrong numbers. $4k is definitely a price tag on a rifle that has zero issues. Oh well, maybe it was a “no excuse rifle”.
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There were some heavy hitter bidders in the hunt. Here is my personal opinion, lets say it's mismatched. It's still a cosmetic machined reciever with threaded barrel. As a bolt mismatch it's still close to 3k. So you're really gambling with what.... 1k? That's not a huge gamble to potentially get something you really want.
 
From the limited pics the stock and metal look great, but like others have mentioned $4,400 it too much $$$ for me to spend with so little info provided and only 16 generalized pictures plus the fact that its being sold on GB. I'm not saying that good, legit, stuff doesn't ever get listed on GB, just that I always look at things on there as being fake until I can determine otherwise--we all know how bad it can get. Selling price seems legit as no low review or NR bidders, maybe the seller is legit and doesn't have 5 other GB accounts to shrill bid it up into oblivion. Appears the gun was sold by a gunshop, which almost always, have little to no experience and knowledge required to answer questions. In my experience gunshops are very hesitant to take things apart to look for serials if you aren't there in front of them and can convince them you know what your talking about.

I suspect whomever was carrying it must have been stationed at one of the channel islands, which saw basically no action for the entire war because those cartouches are super crisp and really set that stock off.

Is $4,400 the going rate for a nice unmolested AC44 rifle these days? Or, is that just the going rate on GB?
 
Tiger 2 Tank said:
I don’t quite understand this auction:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/887697822

The photos show a nice rifle. Good stock side proofs for an early rifle. It’s an early rifle with all the neat early features. Milled “cosmetic” French occupied receiver. But the photos don’t show the things needed to justify the price; such as are the bolt components matching, stock details (keel serial number, wrist stamp). Either the seller sent photos out individually to biders or they were just guessing and hoping it’s correct. Kind of a lot of money to be guessing with.
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One can only assume the bidders asked for more photos or called and got added info.. It looks like it might be an ac44 no letter block ? I really couldn't tell and the photos are horrible.. But, early un dicked with rifles are very very hard to find.
Its on par with the early no letter block duv44 that sold with little to no fan fair.
 
ugafx4 said:
There were some heavy hitter bidders in the hunt. Here is my personal opinion, lets say it's mismatched. It's still a cosmetic machined reciever with threaded barrel. As a bolt mismatch it's still close to 3k. So you're really gambling with what.... 1k? That's not a huge gamble to potentially get something you really want.
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I agree, it’s way too competitive these days not to make a little gamble here and there, and this wasn’t much of a stretch. Look at the vast majority of G/K’s sold, the amount of owner induced issues would be staggering if you took a survey. A good untouched gun will always be worth a whole lot more. People are paying 4K all day long for crap guns with less pictures through the big auction houses by the time you add their ridiculous fees in. I personally gambled on two g41s this year, one turned up matching, the other was a single part m/m, both for less than this rifle. If I waited for a an auction with 100+ pictures I would never own one. Additionally the seller says it appears to match, well if it doesn’t that would be grounds for a return based on a false description, he was also willing to send additional information from what his add says, so I’m not seeing this as a big deal at all personally.
 
I agree with flynaked - in the competitive world of this stuff, if you can't look at an auction like this and take a shot you won't be able to buy anything.
 
mauser99 said:
One can only assume the bidders asked for more photos or called and got added info.. It looks like it might be an ac44 no letter block ? I really couldn't tell and the photos are horrible.. But, early un dicked with rifles are very very hard to find.
Its on par with the early no letter block duv44 that sold with little to no fan fair.
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I agree, I wish that rifle ended up being posted here, I also wish I could have bid on it at the time, it went for a good price. Lots of features that would be pertinent to study here, but it was never shared.
 
(I have been working on this post for a while while other responses were posted above)

As collectors we want to put everything into categories and rationalize everything. Across the board, Gunbroker auctions are a snapshot in time of what a particular rifle is worth at that isolated moment in time. It has been a while since I took statistics but if we had a much larger sample size like 10 AC44 sales in the past 6 months than maybe we could start price trending. The problem with trending AC44 sales is that a., there is a wide variety of variations of AC44 and b. they are in a wide variety of conditions. For every 10 Ac44s I see, 9 maybe 9.5 have issues. There are a LOT of stock issues on 43s that seem to be overlooked by a large number of collectors. Saying every AC44 is now $4400 is a faulty generalization. There are a WIDE variety of factors that influenced this particular sale. I am sure I am leaving some off but here is a general list:

  • Threaded barrel
  • Cosmetic receiver
  • Stock condition (It has a nice level of wear to it)
  • Relative untouchedness (untouched screws) and sense of woodwork find (huge premium on this point)
  • not paying sales tax like they would have to in 3 days (saves the seller $300 at 7%)

I just did a quick search and there are 3 gun shops in that general area. 5 minutes worth of googling and calling and I could be on the phone with the shop that has it for an on the phone inspection. From there I bet they are happy to email or even text photos. With these older shops, the phone is your friend. Will they take it apart? Probably not but at least you have more information than just the auction. That reduces the risk you are taking greatly. I would be willing to bet that this rifle posted here by a collector for $4000 would not sell. Heck if this rifle was posted by this shop for $4000 it probably would not have sold. But they did not do it that way. Rifles are not pistols. This is not a 98% AC44 P38 that is worth exactly $925. There are so many more variables with rifle collecting. This auction provides a snapshot of what this particular rifle is worth. If you see something you want, there is legwork that can be done to give you a leg up over the competition. Learn your own personal risk tolerance and stick your neck out sometimes. I have been rewarded greatly (and burned) by doing it.
 
I think any of us are taking a chance with an auction, but we still do it or we limit ourselves to what’s local or at gunshows with only a few other exceptions. Although it’s far better to be able to look at the details and to be able to disassemble a rifle (or anything else) in person that isn’t the norm with most collectible firearms. That was a very nice rifle and I bid on it myself, the first bid, and hoped it would stay within my budget but I missed the bid-up entirely. Oops. I did jump at auction on two G43s this year and both have turned out to be among the nicest or most unique I own: a very late F block QVE45 and an ac44 a block. Both are fully matching and the real gem to me is the a block ac44. The stock markings are as crisp as any rifle I own and I’m very very pleased with it, but I’m still trying to get that gas cylinder loose. [emoji23] Sometimes we have to gamble a little and that one that just sold, the topic of this thread, looks like it could have been worth the risk. Hopefully it’ll pop up on the forum with lots of images of the details.


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flynaked said:
I agree, I wish that rifle ended up being posted here, I also wish I could have bid on it at the time, it went for a good price. Lots of features that would be pertinent to study here, but it was never shared.
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The early duv still hasn't arrived at its new home.. The mail is super slow and I know who bought it and maybe someday it will be shared. It sold twice in a months time and didn't bring much more than a standard g/k43 being maybe one of the earliest duv's observed in near top condition..
 
Oops I was thinking of a different rifle then, one with abnormal early numbering and such that sold early this year.
 
flynaked said:
Oops I was thinking of a different rifle then, one with abnormal early numbering and such that sold early this year.
Click to expand...

Not sure ? this was a three digit no letter block duv with the carrier numbered like the g41


Anyways with most of these auctions you have to trust your gut a bit.. The one odd thing is I really don't see much of a price escalation of early or truly hard to find rifles over more common stuff :)
 
Interesting, I didn’t see the one you’re talking about, but it might be the same rifle as it sounds very similar off the top of my head. The same kind of G41 numbering etc. I’ll have to go back and look for pictures.
 
All of this is why there's a "ask seller a question" option on GB. If no answer, then I don't bid.
 
A collector friend of mine told me several years ago that a collector grade G/K 43 in good to very good condition can sell for an outrageous price. "Someone with deep pockets, a doctor or lawyer, who wants one will shell out the money," he said.
 
David said:
A collector friend of mine told me several years ago that a collector grade G/K 43 in good to very good condition can sell for an outrageous price. "Someone with deep pockets, a doctor or lawyer, who wants one will shell out the money," he said.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is true. An original and correct one will bring quite a bit of money.
 
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