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Deciphering Imperial German Army Rifle Numbering

pacrane

Junior Member
G'Day All,

I'm a bit of a novice Mauser collector and student. Bulk of my history lies on the other side, with Lee Enfields, US Enfields and Springfields. So forgive me for the slow uptake in broadening my knowledge to the German armoury.

I've recently acquired a Gew 98 after many years of chasing a goo done. This isn't a good one, but it was obtainable and in Oz that's pretty much good enough... :facepalm:

I'm trying to determine the one time owners of this specimen. The butt disc is marked:

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I'm thinking from my rudimentary research that it's the 58th Regiment, (3rd Posen). I'm also guessing that it belonged to the 8th Company of the 2nd Battalion. I'm guessing it was Rack number 23 for the 8th Coy's armoury.

I'm probably a mile off, but it's a start.

Are you able to help me understand this a little better with your deeper knowledge?

Thank you.
 
I'm thinking from my rudimentary research that it's the 58th Regiment, (3rd Posen). I'm also guessing that it belonged to the 8th Company of the 2nd Battalion.

You were really close, it's Infantry Regt. Nr. 58, 8th company, weapon # 28.

Unfortunately, we can't trace weapons to specific soldiers. Would you mind sharing the full spread of pics? Unit marked Gew98s are rather uncommon, especially is the rifle is matching, or mostly matching.

Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
 
You were really close, it's Infantry Regt. Nr. 58, 8th company, weapon # 28.

Unfortunately, we can't trace weapons to specific soldiers. Would you mind sharing the full spread of pics? Unit marked Gew98s are rather uncommon, especially is the rifle is matching, or mostly matching.

Thanks for sharing!

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

G'Day christftk,

Thanks for that confirmation, and yes, missed it by that much as Maxwell Smart would say.

No one with any appreciation of Service rifles would genuinely ask for personal issue details of a rifle or bayonet. Would they...? :facepalm:

I'll see if I can mange a little collage of the rifle. It's far from matching. Bought on an online auction and received a little surprise when I collected it from the dealer. The description and the item seemed to part company earlier on than the Auction preparation... :censored:

Oh, somehow I managed an unhappy smiley for the post title. Should not be there, please disregard...
 
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Spandau 1900 Gew 98

https://www.k98kforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=257638&d=1611022465[IMG]

[IMG]https://www.k98kforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=257636&d=1611022465

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Well, there it is. Been waiting about 5 years to find one and beggars can't be choosers... I quite like it, despite it's various inadequacies. Its used...

Now here's a question you good, knowledgeable folk might be able to help with. Being a Lee Enfield man, I am new to the rollercoaster rear sight ramp and leaf. I notice that I cannot lower the leaf below 500m. The running track in the top of the curve seems to finish short of where the slider would need to go to lower the leaf further.

I've not spent long enough figuring it out, but wonder the following

  1. Is the slider on backwards, therefore preventing it from lowering the leaf?
  2. Does the slider need to be disengaged from the track to lower the leaf below 500?

This sounds like a good education session coming on.
 
. . . .Is the slider on backwards, therefore preventing it from lowering the leaf? . . . .

Yes . . .

My G98 had it’s “slider“ backwards also . . .with the same problem as yours . . . .

Remove the leaf pivot pin, slide leaf out to rear, slide the “slider” off, reverse it, then install everything as before.
 
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JimF,

Excellent, as much as I suspected. Thank you.

I’ve been a little confused by some photos I’ve found, but what you suggest makes sense.

Appreciate your help. [emoji1303]


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My G98 had it’s “slider“ backwards also . . .with the same problem as yours . . . .

Due to my limited english skills, I'm not sure what you mean with "slider backwards". I can't spot any problem with the original 200m rear sight.

@pacrane: are there any traces that the unit disc was flipped?

From the maker/year, the rifle would nicely fit into known colonial rifles.
https://www.k98kforum.com/showthrea...t-Firearms-of-Imperial-German-colonial-forces

Does the stock match the receiver?

Thanks
 
I'm not sure what you mean with "slider backwards". I can't spot any problem with the original 200m rear sight.

Well, the slider in my terminology is that part of the moving sight that elevates the leaf. As shown, the lowest elevation is 500m not 400m. The 200m lower elevation (for the newer spitzer bullet) needed a different leaf arrangement to this original set up, to the best of my knowledge. I may be wrong, happy to hear more detailed information that I've not yet had access to.

@pacrane: are there any traces that the unit disc was flipped?

A good question, but I haven't yet pulled the rifle apart. That will be in a few weeks.

From the maker/year, the rifle would nicely fit into known colonial rifles.
https://www.k98kforum.com/showthrea...t-Firearms-of-Imperial-German-colonial-forces

Excellent, thank you. If I have credible information I'd be happy to share it with that project.

Does the stock match the receiver?

Sadly, no it's what we call a 'Bitzer' in Australia. (Bits of this, bits of that...) The matching components are the barrel, sight and receiver.
 
The front sight looks chrome plated. Can you confirm?

No, it's been painted it seems.

I have read in sources that some had luminous paint on the foresight blade to allow night firing. I don't know the details of this procedure yet so I can't confirm or reject that possibility.
 
A neat rifle and stock, though for different reasons, both are probably near in year to manufacture, the 58th (5 AK) was one of the first AK armed with G98's after the Garde Korps, though the only recorded example is a Danzig/1901 (7th IR, a sister IR), which makes sense, Posen-Danzig and fits the range Carter states it was armed with bayonets (I need to check Sg98's for a similar pattern regarding IR's for this AK)

It is highly unlikely Spandau supplied any rifles for this IR (AK - Army Corps), the are pretty universally Garde or KS (colonial) in the early years. I will see if I can find other AK (IR- Infantry Regiments) rifles from the arsenals of this time tomorrow. It would help to see the external markings on this stock though, the wrist (small of stock), the lower buttstock (serial and acceptance- crowned letter if distinct) and the fonts of the serialing, internally if not externally clear. Then we can better guess the stock manufacturer. (if that is something the OP would like too know)

Also the right side of the receiver has three crowned letters, this would be good to see, as would the barrel marking under the stock if you are adventurous or desire more information. Probably a Krupp barrel, seem more common this early, though Bismarckhütte is also seen (less common)

Actually the stock is more interesting, the metal, a Spandau/00 is not especially rare if mismatched, though this one is very nice, but the (probably) early stock and unit is very interesting. Really a thorough examination of the stock could test some guessing I am making - early stocks have unique features and it should be short work to see if this is an early stock like I guess.
 
A neat rifle and stock, though for different reasons, both are probably near in year to manufacture, the 58th (5 AK) was one of the first AK armed with G98's after the Garde Korps, though the only recorded example is a Danzig/1901 (7th IR, a sister IR), which makes sense, Posen-Danzig and fits the range Carter states it was armed with bayonets (I need to check Sg98's for a similar pattern regarding IR's for this AK)

It is highly unlikely Spandau supplied any rifles for this IR (AK - Army Corps), the are pretty universally Garde or KS (colonial) in the early years. I will see if I can find other AK (IR- Infantry Regiments) rifles from the arsenals of this time tomorrow. It would help to see the external markings on this stock though, the wrist (small of stock), the lower buttstock (serial and acceptance- crowned letter if distinct) and the fonts of the serialing, internally if not externally clear. Then we can better guess the stock manufacturer. (if that is something the OP would like too know)

Also the right side of the receiver has three crowned letters, this would be good to see, as would the barrel marking under the stock if you are adventurous or desire more information. Probably a Krupp barrel, seem more common this early, though Bismarckhütte is also seen (less common)

Actually the stock is more interesting, the metal, a Spandau/00 is not especially rare if mismatched, though this one is very nice, but the (probably) early stock and unit is very interesting. Really a thorough examination of the stock could test some guessing I am making - early stocks have unique features and it should be short work to see if this is an early stock like I guess.


Hey, thanks Loewe,

Apologies for slow response, I took some time to clean about 105+ years of grease and gunk off the timber to see what's underneath. I'm in 2 minds as to whether to keep cleaning thoroughly to see the timber original colour and reoil it.

Anyway, I'll post some photos of the specifics.

First photo is overall left side of stock showing condition. I missed the right... duuuh

Second photo is top wrist stamping.

Third photo is underside of grip stamps. One on Heel of grip, one halfway up and one near rear guard screw.

Fourth is crack between mag and trigger wells.

Fifth butt stampings below Unit ID disc. Very hard to make clear detail.

The first structural issue I see is a crack between magazine well and trigger relief. If I was to be shooting this again, I'd be keen to pin and glue this, thought it would have to be a hidden repair.

Thanks for the detail of possible life history. The mix and match outcome is of interest too, despite not being 'collectable' to the purist. We have to be thankful for what we get here in Oz.
 

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Thanks for the pictures. do more, the bayonet lug area, internal serial, - the wrist (small of stock) acceptance looks right for a Danzig/01, and I have noted two more 5 AK units on rifles, 5 Jäger & 37th IR, - also Mike a well known collector owns the 7th (604/g) and if he could chime in with some stock details (no wrist acceptance or RS under cypher are recorded) it would help also.

Also do a picture of the right side of the receiver and the barrel code if you still have the stock off. This would be very helpful.

I am pretty sure a stock off a Danzig 1901 or 1902.
 
The steel work photos - Spandau 1900

Here's the steelwork. Took some time to clean and photograph.

Any other interesting comments about it's life? Really keen to learn another Service Rifle family.

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Very nice metal, looks original, nice to see these details, very helpful. The real questions lie with the stock. Whether it is as expected and the unit, I still haven't looked to see if this unit-IR-AK association is found on other rifles (or bayonets)

Try and do the stock markings and bayonet lug area?
 
Very nice metal, looks original, nice to see these details, very helpful. The real questions lie with the stock. Whether it is as expected and the unit, I still haven't looked to see if this unit-IR-AK association is found on other rifles (or bayonets)

Try and do the stock markings and bayonet lug area?

I’ve already posted identifiable stock markings. Thread No 12.

Nothing is observable near bayonet lug.


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The bayonet lug and construction would possibly confirm whether it is a very early stock, a reinforced version came into production early in the century, though I think some early stocks were upgraded. The font style of the serialing could be helpful if I can find a close match.

I will try and check regardless, but these could add some certainty or at least clues to run against other examples.
 

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