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M65 Spangenberg & Sauer Saxon Breechloader Carbine

chrisftk

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Staff member
M65 Spangenberg & Sauer Saxon Breechloader Carbine

Well, there may only be a handful of you that will enjoy this one, but I found a rare piece.

These saddle ring carbines were adopted by Saxony in 1865 and served in both the Austro-Prussian and Franco-Prussian Wars. They were produced by Spangenberg and Sauer in Suhl, the forerunner of JP Sauer and Sohn. They more or less faded into obscurity afterward and are very rare today.

The action is a modified version of the British Terry system. It is operated by lifting the breech block, turning it and pulling back to load and doing the reverse to lock the action. Ignition came from a hammer/ primer cap.

This particular example is complete, operational and the metal has not been cleaned. The stock has some old work damage, but is solid otherwise. The unit marking is to the 2nd Schweres Reiter Regt of Saxony.

Anyway that about covers it, thank for looking!
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Hello Chris,
You seem to have a very nice collection of black powder firearms!
While my attention is curently focused at other type of militaria, i would love to dive in collecting black powder firearms.
Since they are legal to own where i life.
I’l keep an close watch to your posts, maybe learn a thing or two bevore diving in.
Thanks for posting!
 
Fascinating rifle Chris, am I right that it is actually an early turning bolt action? I think I would be more comfortable with a bit more solid metal between my face and the charge!
 
Hello Chris,
You seem to have a very nice collection of black powder firearms!
While my attention is curently focused at other type of militaria, i would love to dive in collecting black powder firearms.
Since they are legal to own where i life.
I’l keep an close watch to your posts, maybe learn a thing or two bevore diving in.
Thanks for posting!
Thank you-- the pre unification German stuff is hard to find here in the US, but so many neat designs and variations. Please let me know if I can be of any help.
Fascinating rifle Chris, am I right that it is actually an early turning bolt action? I think I would be more comfortable with a bit more solid metal between my face and the charge!
Thanks Charles-- I think I'd consider it a little more of an evolutionary dead-end, but it does turn slightly and have a locking lug. I think the Dreyse has a bit more in common with modern turnbolt rifles and it came before this system.
Very cool Chris congratulations to you buddy.
Thanks buddy!

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Chris,

thats a very neat and rare carbine. Great find! I love the fact that they included a percussion cap protector.

Saxon weaponry is not my field of knowledge, do you know if these carbines were designed as a breechloader from the beginning or are they reworked muzzle loaders?

Even though this forum here is dedicated to the post 1871 weapons i still think it is important to look at the earlier rifles and carbines that came before the 1871 mausers and so on. The weapons of the imperial era didnt just appear out of thin air but were heavily influced by their pre-1871 predecessor and i think that if we als collectors want to gather a deep and scientific understanding regarding imperial weapons and how they developed we need to look at those earlier guns.

Plus they are a very fascinatiung field of interest of their own.

Keep them coming and with kind regards

Vincent
 
Chris,

thats a very neat and rare carbine. Great find! I love the fact that they included a percussion cap protector.

Saxon weaponry is not my field of knowledge, do you know if these carbines were designed as a breechloader from the beginning or are they reworked muzzle loaders?

Even though this forum here is dedicated to the post 1871 weapons i still think it is important to look at the earlier rifles and carbines that came before the 1871 mausers and so on. The weapons of the imperial era didnt just appear out of thin air but were heavily influced by their pre-1871 predecessor and i think that if we als collectors want to gather a deep and scientific understanding regarding imperial weapons and how they developed we need to look at those earlier guns.

Plus they are a very fascinatiung field of interest of their own.

Keep them coming and with kind regards

Vincent
Thanks Vincent, I completely agree. I'd love to have a 4th section for Pre-unification rifles. (Paul, any chance of that??) The pieces are rarer, but there really aren't many venues dedicated to study of them.

From the limited information I have on them, I believe these were built from the ground up as breechloaders. On close inspection, it does not have the "look" of a conversion like say, a Podewils. I could be wrong, but that is my view based on what I see/have read.

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Okay this is really cool, I love all the early BP carbines, especially the Werder, this is a new one on me but being a Spangenberg & Sauer I can’t help but love it. Interesting action, it very much reminded me of the Podewils right off the bat.
 
Okay this is really cool, I love all the early BP carbines, especially the Werder, this is a new one on me but being a Spangenberg & Sauer I can’t help but love it. Interesting action, it very much reminded me of the Podewils right off the bat.
Thanks buddy! Yeah, I know if anyone shares my love of all things Sauer, it's you!

One of these days I'll get a fancy sporter. Lol.

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