Disappointing oddball of a rifle

I purchased a K98 from an undisclosed seller on a popular auction site with some very sound advice from members on here. I was very excited as it was a rare rifle for many reasons, but when I received it I knew almost immeditely that it had been sanded and not described as such. In the pictures from the auction I could not tell it had been sanded. Lighting and top down photos made it difficult to tell. I sand cars occassionaly for paint and that experience helped me to identify the sanding as I could see the original factory sanding on the right hand side (unmolested) where as the left hand side had different sanding directions, ripples from not using a block, and the sander did not bother to match the contour of the rifle. It had a lot of material missing by the take down lever which I compared to a rifle I knew to be correct. I included a picture from Michael Steeves book to show what appears to be a Mauser employee sanding the rifle along the horizontal axis where as my rifle had been sanded at a 45 degree angle upwards. You can only see this in certain lighting while looking along the edge of the rifle.

I included pictures of the keel of the stock as I thought it was interesting that this was the darkest portion. Usually the rifles that I run across are lightest on the tops and bottoms and darkest on the sides of the stock from where well meaning owners rubbed them with oil over the years.

The seller did the right thing after 30 minutes of debate and accepted the refund. Thanks to everyone on here who assisted and let me know if you think I did the right thing/ thoughts on the rifle. Rifle is shipped as of this morning.

That's quite a flat spot that really shows in pic # 7 & 8 You would think that would have been rejected during assembly or at insp?

k98dave said:

That's quite a flat spot that really shows in pic # 7 & 8 You would think that would have been rejected during assembly or at insp?

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My thoughts are that was done post war by a bubba

Well......not all late war rifles got the best sanding jobs, and not all are with the grain. When I look at a rifle to decide it it’s sanded, I check edges and corners, end especially the bolt cutout. Rarely does the bolt cutout get missed. Honestly, if someone sent me those photos I wouldn’t guarantee it was sanded, I’d need more pics.


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aye aye captain, but the bolt cutout is fine and to me not messed with. A moderator and another collector also said it was wanked.

Like i said in the first post i think the right side of the gun has not been messed with. The left hand side is whats very off to me. The bowed left side of the cheek rail, the uneven surfaces on the left side by receiver cutout, and the area behind the recoil lug are what to me made me so incredibly suspect. I wanted to toss it like a hot potato before I got stuck with it. From what I have seen in the K98 books I thought the stock blank was spun on a lathe type of a machine that turned it into a recognizeable stock. The finisher would then lightly sand the rifle then remove splinters. I would be expecting him to be focusing on splinters and not removing an entire layer of the laminate to the point that the take down lever petrudes over the left side of the stock... I understand its 1944 and its the end of the world and all, but if they were too busy to remove chatter marks I dont know why some worker would have the time to hold the rifle to the wheel that long. Especially if there are ripples in the sanding are which to me means it was done my hand and by an amatuer at that. Not someone who sands all day long every day who would have had at least a block or even like something similar to a paint stick. Especially if it was done at the factory you would think the finish would have blended over the years with added oil

OttoVonBismarck said:

In the pictures from the auction I could not tell it had been sanded. Lighting and top down photos made it difficult to tell.

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For the life of me, I can't understand why so many auction sellers try to mask the faults of their wares with intentionally bad photography. As easy as it is to produce good pictures nowadays, why would anyone do this? It only means an eventual argument with the buyer, and having to deal with a return. Perhaps they're gambling that the buyer won't go through the hassle, and just keep the thing. But if you asked me, it's a sh*tty way to do business.

Based on the prevalence of this with sellers I wonder how many buyers make an issue of these things? One would think if the got “busted” every time they’d stop it...?
I had a similar situation once (not a K98), complained, and the seller gave me a pretty hefty “partial refund” to take care of the undisclosed issues. Course I shouldn’t have had to do that but it was made right I suppose.

I defer to your in hand examination. I have rifles similar to this with lighter left side than right, usually due to the rifle having a sling on it. The flat spot? Not the first I’ve seen like that either. But again, not my rifle.


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byf42 Brunn I

Wow, I am surprised. From the pics this looked like a good rifle. I still support my initial assessment that this is a good rifle.

I found the GB sellers pics, I'm sorry but that stock isn't sanded. Does it have a flat spot sanded to the left side? Yes, it does. But this doesn't appear to be postwar sanding to me. I'm not sure what the purity scale it for you but if you are going to buy these things you have to be able to tell period stuff from bubba - this doesn't look like bubba work to me. Its your call and in the end you have to be happy. Price was too high anyway IMO but I can't sit idle while a good gun is denigrated.

mrfarb said:

I found the GB sellers pics, I'm sorry but that stock isn't sanded. Does it have a flat spot sanded to the left side? Yes, it does. But this doesn't appear to be postwar sanding to me. I'm not sure what the purity scale it for you but if you are going to buy these things you have to be able to tell period stuff from bubba - this doesn't look like bubba work to me. Its your call and in the end you have to be happy. Price was too high anyway IMO but I can't sit idle while a good gun is denigrated.

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I have massive respect for your opnions which is why I consulted probably the top five people on here. I bought it thinking ut was an awesome rifle. I choked when i felt that mark in person and felt what to me was an incorrect stock compared to my other matching rifle. There the stock is not only not flush with the take down lever it is actually ever so slightly recessed. You can see that in the image where the contour of the wrist suddenly stops.

Here is a link to a members rifle: https://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?2051-Dot-44-(243)-rework

He does not depict the left side of the stock in the area that I did, but I reached out asking for pictures.

I have one final piece of information on the rifle that is pretty damning, but I gave my word I wouldn't share it. I know thats not very helpful or relavent, but it helps me feel a little more confident in my decision.

I sure as hell hope you are wrong otherwise I just passed up an excellent rifle. I will concede I dont know late war rifles at all, but I assumed the profile of the stock would be remotely similar to mid war. Another moderator on here also told me he thought it was wanked when I sent him pictures of when I unwrapped it.

People have opinions that differ, it’s allowed here for sure. I see bad guns called out all the time and I agree, imo from what I see it isn’t wanked. But if you know other things not evident, good for you sending it back. Imo the seller overprices everything, and even that rifle as rare as it is the overall condition is less than I would accept for my own collection. I just want to go on record my feelings about the stock. These things weren’t made perfectly in every case, and comparing a dot44 stock to a byf stock is not a good comparison. Glad you are happy and were allowed to return it.


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With Bruce and you saying that its not a bad gun not sure what to think now as I may have just royally messed up. I wanted it for the byf42 receiver as that is what I like. I will find a copy of volume three and keep an eye out for another dot 44. I will be going to SOS for the first time so I will try and find some rifles there to bring back home. I will try and learn more about the late war stuff and circle back to this thread later.

No disrespect intended, but I think you may have gotten inside your own head on this one. Like everyone else, I can only assess what’s actually been posted, but based on the pics, that rifle does not appear to be post war sanded. If however you have damning information on it that we’re not privy to, then that’s another story...

I felt it had been sanded... I sent pictures to a k98k forum moderator and another collector. Both said yes it had been sanded... I sent it back. I did not want to take three days with it for fear of being stuck with it. I did what I could with the knowlege I had at the time

Just to illustrate the point, some late war stock craftsmanship from our friends at Steyr.

I've gotta admit -- those waves running down the right side of the forend would've caused me to look somewhat askance, even more so if the piece cost a lot of money. That type of surface doesn't seem like something you'd get from one of those large diameter sanding drums used at the factory.

Like the OP, the waves and ripples would've made me think "sanded without a block".

Richie

RyanE said:

Just to illustrate the point, some late war stock craftsmanship from our friends at Steyr.

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OP I couldn't see the diagonal marks you talk about, but if it's the shaping of the stock just under the bolt shroud, see this example.

Each manufacturer did that area differently, and as farb says it can vary even within manufacturer from day to day. Mauser and Gustloff had pronounced ridges leading up to the bolt disassembly lever, but the Czech manufacturers dot and dou (often) had much smoother transitions to this high point. I say often because even the pic reference section contains a few dots and dous with the more pronounced Mauser style profile, but you can see from the pic reference section that this is at least more common among the Czechs, not necessarily the majority occurrence though.

I think the OP needs to find a different hobby......