Third Party Press

Current Amoskeag auction

People with money are expecting the inevitable with MagoopuppetHarris and the Democrats running things: rampant inflation and economic turmoil. Think Jimmy Carter except far less competent and far more corrupt and evil. They probably want to crash the economy to usher in the Great Reset.

In any event, people with money are putting it in durable things, such as collectibles. K98ks are an excellent investment as the Dems can't register and confiscate those (yet) without advertising that they lied. I'm seeing money going into art, collectibles, etc. The bottom feeders and parasites have buyers to whom they cater who have money and don't care to research. They rely upon these dealers to do their research and work for them, i.e., they believe the carnival barking. The problem is that this artificially inflates and screws up the market. It harms our hobby because it discourages new entrants. The gun carnies don't care, they just want to make alot of money and then they will move on to the next field to destroy, like locusts. The main difference I see between us and how CW collecting was destroyed is that our core is ethical and strong and we regularly out humpjobs. We need to continue to do that until it becomes easier for carnies and such to monger in other collectible areas. All just my humble opinions.....
 
I don’t understand the constant bitching about prices and sellers. Like everything else in the world, it’s all about supply and demand. Yes it’s frustrating to see things you would like to own sell at prices so high that you are priced out of the market but that’s just the way it is. Stop whining, put on your big boy pants and collect something else. Or figure out a way to increase your income. I would like to collect E Type Jaguars, FG42s, Regimentally marked First Model Brown Bess muskets, and National Treasure grade Japanese swords, but that ain’t happening. So I collect other things that interest me instead, and that I can afford.
And at the end of the day it’s just stuff. Someday the market will collapse just as the Civil War market did either due to demographics or economic collapse (which is inevitable if the current administration continues unchecked) and nobody will want our baubles.

Steve
 
Current thread

One of the casualties of a successful project (in this case Volumes I to III) is an increase in the collector base. Add the impact of the forum to that and the situation is compounded.
Mike and I agree that the result in making it harder for a smaller collector base was inevitable. We knew the collector to collector competition would ensue given the limited supply, but
that's ok. With the increase in demand by the K98k community, a dark side also ensues, with profit to be made. To further the analogy, success breeds carpetbaggers and that is exactly
the situation now. Craig stated it earlier referring to them as "locusts" and I agree. I guess that's reality and a situation we have do deal with.
 
It's bad Steve when the average byf44 is be asked on Gunbroker and at the shows for $4000 the most commonly found K98k rifle out there. When four years ago I bought my AX 1940 for a little over half of that. For a K98k rifle that is far rarer and much more scarce. Do we want to see the K98k market go the route of the machine gun market when your average rifle is priced at $10,000 one day? I'll be honest I got involved because it was a fun, and enjoyable. The hobby and interest of the K98k rifle to me is what made it fun, and I didn't really care about the price. But when prices get too stupid and crazy, my interest in buying drops. There are many new young collectors I have met that were turned away due to the prices nowadays. I'll be honest that made be sad to hear. That is another main purpose of this hobby for young new members to get involved.

And think of it this way when it does come time for us members to sell one day. Do we want to only sell to the big auction houses, the big time dealers, etc in the future? I really don't. Personally I rather folks here get my items but that is just me.

Here's one for you guys many of you remember this one. But it really did make this man's day that me a young collector wanted this piece of history his dad brought home. And many of those dealers at that show were pissed because they tried to screw the gentleman on his asking price. And I ended up with this rifle in the end because I was fair to him. All they wanted to do was flip it on Gunbroker for big money. I don't own it anymore but it was passed down to another K98k collector here. Still one of my favorites though.

https://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?32541-So-this-walked-in-today
 
Last edited:
ottodog8 said:
I don’t understand the constant bitching about prices and sellers. Like everything else in the world, it’s all about supply and demand. Yes it’s frustrating to see things you would like to own sell at prices so high that you are priced out of the market but that’s just the way it is. Stop whining, put on your big boy pants and collect something else. Or figure out a way to increase your income. I would like to collect E Type Jaguars, FG42s, Regimentally marked First Model Brown Bess muskets, and National Treasure grade Japanese swords, but that ain’t happening. So I collect other things that interest me instead, and that I can afford.
And at the end of the day it’s just stuff. Someday the market will collapse just as the Civil War market did either due to demographics or economic collapse (which is inevitable if the current administration continues unchecked) and nobody will want our baubles.

Steve
Click to expand...

My big boy pants fit just fine. If anything I’m focused more on selling, not buying, going forward. The problem is artificial manipulation of prices, not the market. A good analogy is the securities markets and insider trading, boiler rooms, and such. Those things are illegal because they are artificial market manipulations, i.e., fraud. I believe that a good bit of the ridiculous auction prices are due to shill bidding and chicanery. Some people don’t understand that the reported “realized price” is actually 20-40% higher than the sales price as commissions are included. I also think carnival barking and BS don’t help. People see this and believe it’s real and it’s not.
 
Hambone said:
My big boy pants fit just fine. If anything I’m focused more on selling, not buying, going forward. The problem is artificial manipulation of prices, not the market. A good analogy is the securities markets and insider trading, boiler rooms, and such. Those things are illegal because they are artificial market manipulations, i.e., fraud. I believe that a good bit of the ridiculous auction prices are due to shill bidding and chicanery. Some people don’t understand that the reported “realized price” is actually 20-40% higher than the sales price as commissions are included. I also think carnival barking and BS don’t help. People see this and believe it’s real and it’s not.
Click to expand...

Yes the carnival barking is really bad. We saw this with the duv 1940 that was posted on here when it was bought off GunBroker. The buyer believed the sellers description that this was surrendered by the Africa Korp because the other duv 1940 that was listed in the k98k series of books. Was an authentic British captured rifle. Not to mention the seller put a whole bunch of that Africa Korp nonsense in the description. Like the reason the bluing is worn is because it served time in the desert, most likely serve time with Rommel, blah blah blah.

We members here laugh about that but somebody still paid close to $4,000 for it.
 
As the 3 previous well respected posters alluded to, I'm neither anti free market or some crocket that wants prices to be what they were in the 60s. What I AM against is people using the freely provided and extremely useful information to line their pockets at the expense of new collectors. This is neither good nor sustainable. Your post comes off to me as either a) you're one of them or b) you shill for them. Trust me, them using information they gained without adding one ounce of useful input to artifically inflate their prices is not good or fair. Can they continue to do this? Legally, yes. There's a reason we call out all the nonsense we see, both here and on Dave's site. Please stop telling us we should accept and justify those turds who gain 10s or even 100s of thousands of dollars using free information to distort, inflate or otherwise overstate the objects they're selling. I for one am not buying your nonsense. Think I'm lying or making up shite?? Look at (now) wz29 inventory.
 
A thread like this pops up now and again.. We have seen many beginner collector become overnight expurts then only to become semi professional flippers in a matter of years. I understand the concept of buying and selling and selling to buy more only people with unlimited means have no clue what im talking about.

Complaining really does make us look like a bunch of wining spoiled babies that our precious corner of the world is now polluted with professional profiteers .

As the old saying goes. Success comes with a cost. This is the cost we are paying and all buyers are going to pay going forward for top condition rifles.. There was a day most people didnt want a k98k or thought very little of them . Now they are far more interesting to the masses. The cost of success..

A way to adjust this is start selling your stuff for less... I dont see anyone doing that anytime soon.

Be happy your in a situation that your items have value and they continue to go up.. Many things overtime have not.

I think CW collecting was a victim to its own success but also these things are very generational. CW collectors were an older breed and as they die off there's not as many to pick up the torch.. Span Am , WW1 ect. WW2 was a massive thing it consumed every part of society and that can still be felt. Vietnam and I even see desert storm now 30 years old! hard to be believe being more collected.

It's also good to have this kind of passion for the hobby !! Lots of us have invested half our lives or more to this one weapon.... My 2 cents again..
 
I just want to say, as one of the 'new collectors' whose prospects are getting negatively impacted by all the bs and hucksters and drive-by collectors out there....there is still some hope...

But my own 'success' (having a collection of six decent K98k's now...which is six more than I had a year ago) comes directly from getting ingratiated in serious collecting and the corresponding community. Five of my six rifles have come from other collectors, and all have been fairly priced, because they came from people who care more about the hobby and its health than they do about raking in cash. But more importantly than the guns themselves, I've spent lots of time reading the books, reading the forum, and chatting with other far more experienced guys than I....soaking up knowledge and building relationships. From all that, real and good opportunities do arise in time--plus you make some cool friends.

Basically, there is an excellent community of devoted collectors who are willing to help those who also help themselves.
 
As a new collector here too this is good to hear.


hale1940 said:
I just want to say, as one of the 'new collectors' whose prospects are getting negatively impacted by all the bs and hucksters and drive-by collectors out there....there is still some hope...

But my own 'success' (having a collection of six decent K98k's now...which is six more than I had a year ago) comes directly from getting ingratiated in serious collecting and the corresponding community. Five of my six rifles have come from other collectors, and all have been fairly priced, because they came from people who care more about the hobby and its health than they do about raking in cash. But more importantly than the guns themselves, I've spent lots of time reading the books, reading the forum, and chatting with other far more experienced guys than I....soaking up knowledge and building relationships. From all that, real and good opportunities do arise in time--plus you make some cool friends.

Basically, there is an excellent community of devoted collectors who are willing to help those who also help themselves.
Click to expand...
 
mauser99 said:
A thread like this pops up now and again.. We have seen many beginner collector become overnight expurts then only to become semi professional flippers in a matter of years. I understand the concept of buying and selling and selling to buy more only people with unlimited means have no clue what im talking about.

Complaining really does make us look like a bunch of wining spoiled babies that our precious corner of the world is now polluted with professional profiteers .

As the old saying goes. Success comes with a cost. This is the cost we are paying and all buyers are going to pay going forward for top condition rifles.. There was a day most people didnt want a k98k or thought very little of them . Now they are far more interesting to the masses. The cost of success..

A way to adjust this is start selling your stuff for less... I dont see anyone doing that anytime soon.

Be happy your in a situation that your items have value and they continue to go up.. Many things overtime have not.

I think CW collecting was a victim to its own success but also these things are very generational. CW collectors were an older breed and as they die off there's not as many to pick up the torch.. Span Am , WW1 ect. WW2 was a massive thing it consumed every part of society and that can still be felt. Vietnam and I even see desert storm now 30 years old! hard to be believe being more collected.

It's also good to have this kind of passion for the hobby !! Lots of us have invested half our lives or more to this one weapon.... My 2 cents again..
Click to expand...

“Whining babies” because we don’t like scumbag and dishonest practices? As it is written, “that which is allowed will continue.” Much of what we are seeing is market manipulation, carnival barking, and fraud. We call it out, as we are doing now. Or, we can sit about and let our hobby be overtaken by gun carnies, humpers, and scumbags by being silent.

On a positive note, obviously all of this “whining” and turd alerting we’ve been doing has had a positive effect because we have a good number of excellent 20 and 30 somethings involved in K98k collecting. I don’t see that German helmet collecting has been so managed and stewarded over the years and I don’t see many young guys going into that area of the hobby. Thus, it resembles CW collecting in the 80s to me. We are still peaking, because of the “whining.”
 
Hambone said:
People with money are expecting the inevitable with MagoopuppetHarris and the Democrats running things: rampant inflation and economic turmoil. Think Jimmy Carter except far less competent and far more corrupt and evil. They probably want to crash the economy to usher in the Great Reset.

In any event, people with money are putting it in durable things, such as collectibles. K98ks are an excellent investment as the Dems can't register and confiscate those (yet) without advertising that they lied. I'm seeing money going into art, collectibles, etc. The bottom feeders and parasites have buyers to whom they cater who have money and don't care to research. They rely upon these dealers to do their research and work for them, i.e., they believe the carnival barking. The problem is that this artificially inflates and screws up the market. It harms our hobby because it discourages new entrants. The gun carnies don't care, they just want to make alot of money and then they will move on to the next field to destroy, like locusts. The main difference I see between us and how CW collecting was destroyed is that our core is ethical and strong and we regularly out humpjobs. We need to continue to do that until it becomes easier for carnies and such to monger in other collectible areas. All just my humble opinions.....
Click to expand...

I agree that the fear of rampant inflation is a player in this market. I own a small farm in Indiana, 179 acres, about half of it is in untillable wooded hillsides. It is located about 1 1/2 hours from the nearest city of any real size. I am a (mostly) absentee landlord and I get a lot of unsolicited offers. These offers had increased marginally over the years, but nothing to get rich off of. Since the riots, I'm sorry ,peaceful protests, of last fall, and now Biden's election, the offered prices have increased dramatically, enough to tempt me, but the farm was Dad's and I was hoping to pass it to my grandson one day. More and more of the locals are selling, mostly to speculators who divide the property and sell it in 5 to 10 acre lots as getaways, hunting ground, and now people who want to escape the city for safety concerns. But the individuals who are approaching me wanting to buy the entire property see it as an inflation hedge to balance other investments.

Getting back to K98ks, the real change in my opinion, is there are no more "cheap" ones out there. I was at a collector show this weekend, Several K98ks available, The cheapest one was $795. and these are rough examples or RC's. On the other hand there were at least three matching rifles in good condition, all common code/years for $2000 to $2250. Not cheap, but better than gun broker prices. But even that is a stretch for many new/younger collectors. There are still good deals, but it takes time to find them. I drove four hours last week to preview a auction that had lots of mausers of various types. There was one dot 44 that I do believe was correct, and it had an original sling, it sold for $1701 including the 26% premium. All the others K98ks had some type of issue, not deliberate fakes, but mismatched parts.

My purchase was probably the poorest condition of the lot. Dirty, rusty, mismatched parts and missing hand guard. But it was a very early blank sidewall Standard Modell and I got it for $353. including premium. It helps to like weird stuff that no one wants, and unlike most collectors, ( and I am not recommending this approach) I get more excited about a rare gun in bad shape than a common one in good shape. But if I was not retired, I could not have afforded to take an entire day off work to go preview, and I would not have risked bidding anything on poor descriptions and 3 pictures per item.

I do wonder if in a few years, as all the WWll vets are gone, and no more direct connection to that horror, our hobby will see the price decline the CW folks did after the 150 year anniversary.
 
Hambone said:
“Whining babies” because we don’t like scumbag and dishonest practices?
Click to expand...

Not to keep beating a dead horse but apparently is was not clear ENOUGH? I'm not anti-capitalist or against anyone earning an honest buck. My problem comes from the rest of it. The over the top, often outright lies and the outrageous prices and profits trying to be realized while contributing ZERO to the community at large. If this was the case of an IPO in the stock market, a doctor or a pharma (or even food industry) there'd be investigations and possible jail time and likely fines... and for good reason. THAT is my problem.

Oh and it only pisses me off even more when they get called out and try to justify what they're doing with more lies about how they're 'helping'. Please bitch.
 
Last edited:
As one mentioned, one of the reasons for the fall in value of civil war firearms was due to collectors aging out. Will the same happen with WWII items? Will those who are aging into being able to own firearms today want Vietnam era items. Especially as more become C&R eligible? Certainly seems AKs have taken off in price, and they are mostly kit rifles.

I have seen the cycle with cars; which moves much faster. My father is now 79. 30-35 years ago when he was closer to my age now 1950s cars were hot. Then 15 years later it was the Mopar Cars of the 1960s, then the 1970s cars, today it is the cars of the 1980s, which are the cars from when I started driving. People want that Grand National they couldn't afford as a 17 year old, just like my father wanted the T-Birds. The 1950s cars never reached their peak of the late 1980s again, though maybe now they have. I guess I will soon find out. My father asked me to sell his last T-Bird a fully restored 1957; of which he is the second owner.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 
capt14k said:
As one mentioned, one of the reasons for the fall in value of civil war firearms was due to collectors aging out. Will the same happen with WWII items? Will those who are aging into being able to own firearms today want Vietnam era items. Especially as more become C&R eligible? Certainly seems AKs have taken off in price, and they are mostly kit rifles.

I have seen the cycle with cars; which moves much faster. My father is now 79. 30-35 years ago when he was closer to my age now 1950s cars were hot. Then 15 years later it was the Mopar Cars of the 1960s, then the 1970s cars, today it is the cars of the 1980s, which are the cars from when I started driving. People want that Grand National they couldn't afford as a 17 year old, just like my father wanted the T-Birds. The 1950s cars never reached their peak of the late 1980s again, though maybe now they have. I guess I will soon find out. My father asked me to sell his last T-Bird a fully restored 1957; of which he is the second owner.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I see more younger guys (20s-30s) getting into K98k collecting and staying than when I got involved and was that age in the late 80s and 90s. Exceptional, good, quality guys. :happy0180: The only problem I see is the popularity of the hobby outstripping supply. However, let one of us geezers with a big collection croak and there you go. I'm in my early 50s and while not actively buying, I'm still very involved and interested in collecting. I'd rather help younger guys score cool stuff and am vetting things privately almost daily. I enjoy it. The guys here enjoy this hobby. I've been given some outstanding deals by friends and tried to reciprocate that.

I do resent it a bit when I see high markup dealers using information gleaned here for free to bark up their wares. They are just trying to maximize profit, the American way. If the market is on a level playing field without hijinks, so be it. But we all know it's not sometimes, many times. We call that out, call out turds, and continue to do so. By us sticking together and doing what we do we keep the hobby straight. I don't see the American CW collecting field as our future. When I watched it dying in the early 80s there were no new young guys getting in it. Today, it's astounding, but you can by a nice original Springfield or Enfield for less than a nice K98k.
 
We collectors of WW2 rifles in general have gone from being seen as "Bottom Feeders", by those who collected older guns, to being " Top Dogs" in my lifetime.

When I first started collecting 98k rifles they were readily available at $100.00 - $150.00, in great condition.

While I am pleased my collection will benefit my family financially, that was never my intent, when I started.

Bottom line, there will always be those who try to enrich themselves.

Eventually the market will cool, interest will wane, and prices will drop as demand for the item declines.

Hopefully it will not end like the "BEANY BABY'' craze......


For those who do not remember: https://nypost.com/2015/02/22/how-the-beanie-baby-craze-was-concocted-then-crashed/
 
Last edited:
Anyone notice how the market moves based on historic milestone dates & sometimes related movies? Gettysburg saw a surge in CW prices, Band of Brothers and Saving Pvt. Ryan spiked WW2 items. This is usually the novice or what I call "Trend Collectors" that jump in on impulse buys. A little while later they start selling off as the trends change. I follow the Colt SAA & 1911 pre war market, it cycles up and down and every few years just stalls out when prices get out of line before coming back in range. That cycle with k98's or G/K43 is bound to happen to some degree at some point. Seems like G/K43s are appearing on the market more in the last few years but that doesn't mean they are always selling for the asking prices.
 
Definitely an interesting thread...

The exact same issue is happening now with cars.. B&J just had their spring auction this past weekend....Insanely stupid money being spent on some cars...'70 Chevelles for instance...A "run of the mill"
high option L34 (396/350HP..base engine for the SS) car...nice resto and paperwork...$140-150k...NO WAY should that car approach 6 figures....they are the all over the place..

Some cars were pulling 50-75% more money this year...

My best guess...like Hambone said...guys with coin want durable goods as procession is 9/10ths..hard to take things away from people once they have them. With collectibles a lot of people realize they are only caretakers of the stuff...so buying high isn't as big of a concern, as the enjoyment and fulfillment out of the item is worth more than the coin...don't worry about the resale, if you keep it long enough...you don't have to ponder value...someone else gets to figure that out
 
Great observations and commentary. I've been at this hobby (some may term it an addiction) since the late 60's early 70's and I've seen the market fluctuations you all have referenced. I've also been witness to the occasional commentary by (at that time) CW, Colt and Winchester collectors who couldn't understand why anyone was interested in "that old German or Nazi stuff". For me, historical interest was everpresent in all genres, however my economic situation pretty much relegated me to the then $100-$150 WW1 and WW2 German guns.

Fast forward, and many of us have quite serendipitously found our collections increasing in value beyond any expectations we might once have had. A positive thing, to be certain, but also an obligation to try to keep abreast of realistic current values of comparable items. That's been a bit of a research challenge for me as prices have fluctuated widely and it's not always clear to me if the items are really comparable to what I have. Thanks to forum members, valuation has become much less of a challenge.

To the point several have made, whether these treasures are passed down to family or friends or sold after our respective expiration dates come and go, they will likely eventually end up on some market. As a dear departed friend used to say "I've never seen a moving van following a hearse to the cemetery".
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Military Rifle Journal
Back
Top