Current Amoskeag auction

German rifles have been averaging about 6% a year for the past 12 years. Russian rifles have been doing about 8% to put that into perspective. Hagarty did an indepth study and found that classic cars appreciated by an average of 5%. Unless you find something stupidly rare a real investment is obviously better, but its a fun place to park some money and not have to worry about it being a depreciating asset.

tokarev38 said:

I wasn't clear in my statement. I didn't mean impossible, but restricted in international trade. I am aware that there are large collections worldwide, but how many collectible guns are traded internationally? How many gunbroker sellers would ship outside US? It is possible, but with all the transfers and fees probably not feasible for most common guns.

Polish prewar guns are sort of an example. While prices for Polish militaria and bayonets in particular increased 5 to 10 fold over last 20 years, not so much for firearms. That is due to increased interest in Poland for those item. Because it is difficult however to buy and to get a rifle from US to Poland, guns didn't experienced that. At least yet. And again, don't get me wrong. There are gun collectors in Poland, but not too many

Click to expand...

The international trade is just not worth the effort for cheap rifles, but for collectible rifles it is (speaking on collectors, not on large stock). And if you think all the business is done on GB, then you are wrong. I know a gun dealer in my country that has several hundred thousand guns in stock. Do you know any gun dealer in the US that has this stock? In certain countries it is easier to import and export firearms than in others. I've imported firearms from US, Canada, Norway, Scotland, England, Australia, Switzerland, South Africa, France, Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Finland and New Zealand (plus surely a few more I forgot upon). It isn't much of a trouble if you become familiar with it.

Re Polish guns, bad sample. The Polish used to drive up the European market. A few years ago a Polish VIS Radom was € 1000 in Europe. Now you won't get one under € 4000 with very good samples all over € 5000. Heck, they even paid the € 5000 for a Polish VIS Radom holster. For the moment the import of a single Polish VIS Radom from the US to Poland might make this particular gun too expensive, but the time might come when the difference in value is such large that despite the paperwork and costs is so large, that an import is attractive.

Absolut said:

The international trade is just not worth the effort for cheap rifles, but for collectible rifles it is (speaking on collectors, not on large stock). And if you think all the business is done on GB, then you are wrong. I know a gun dealer in my country that has several hundred thousand guns in stock. Do you know any gun dealer in the US that has this stock? In certain countries it is easier to import and export firearms than in others. I've imported firearms from US, Canada, Norway, Scotland, England, Australia, Switzerland, South Africa, France, Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Finland and New Zealand (plus surely a few more I forgot upon). It isn't much of a trouble if you become familiar with it.

Re Polish guns, bad sample. The Polish used to drive up the European market. A few years ago a Polish VIS Radom was € 1000 in Europe. Now you won't get one under € 4000 with very good samples all over € 5000. Heck, they even paid the € 5000 for a Polish VIS Radom holster. For the moment the import of a single Polish VIS Radom from the US to Poland might make this particular gun too expensive, but the time might come when the difference in value is such large that despite the paperwork and costs is so large, that an import is attractive.

Click to expand...

There are ways to get around the import mark correct? There is an ATF form I believe to apply for a non marked import to avoid hurting historical firearms

OttoVonBismarck said:

There are ways to get around the import mark correct? There is an ATF form I believe to apply for a non marked import to avoid hurting historical firearms

Click to expand...

To get around the import mark is hard and very time consuming. It can be done, but I wouldn't go through the extra 2 years to get it done. When there isn't even a guarantee it will be approved. Import mark is so discrete you would barely notice it. Nothing like Century Billboard.

Here is the import mark on a Hungarian 91/30. Sold it to Dennis Kroh for a nice profit and he sold for a nice profit himself. Mark didn't seem to bother buyer.

Well there is no going back in time, and you must realize the market will wax and wane over time.

There will always be grifters, thieves, and hustlers around when money is to be made...

Try to buy nice things as they tend to keep value ....

And remember if you collect anything, you will get burned on occasion.

That is just harsh reality....

The problem as I see it (thinking back on my own experiences in the 1980's) is that new, younger collectors will be discouraged from entering the hobby for multiple reasons: 1) A collector K98k is too expensive; 2) There is too high of a risk for fakery–or other issues effecting the value; 3) The gun will be too valuable to shoot; 4) The gun will need to be kept in a safe; and 5) There will be fears and concerns about ineffective, excessive, or improper cleaning and preservation. None of these issues were in my thought processes back in the 1980's–except the cleaning/preservation issue. The first rifles I bought were taken out and shot and kept in the open in my bedroom so I could enjoy them and show them to my friends–what else would be expected of a teenager/college kid? Maybe the “new younger” collectors of the future will actually be older guys with a little money and a few years of experience buying and/or collecting other things.

Despite this, I think values will remain high for the good stuff that is sold by good dealers and collectors. We may come to a point when the best items are mostly sold privately to fellow collectors. Reliable information and mentors/helpers/encouragers are important to help young collectors, which are all present here (but personal, face-to face relationships are best). Perhaps the only way I could imagine a total collapse in values would be something along the lines of a major fraud being perpetrated by someone on this forum, using this forum, that is so bad that it taints the whole community. I believe those in charge here will not allow that to happen.

Those who engage in fraud are ultimately exposed.

Cost IS the driving factor in every area involving collectibles, and invariably results in the decline of entry level collectors.

This is a simple fact.

Collect because you want to and never over expose yourself to financial burdens that adversely impact your well being.

DO NOT enter any hobby thinking you can, or will, make money off your collectibles, when your interest wanes, or your health fails.

DaveDavis said:

Those who engage in fraud are ultimately exposed.

Cost IS the driving factor in every area involving collectibles, and invariably results in the decline of entry level collectors.

This is a simple fact.

Collect because you want to and never over expose yourself to financial burdens that adversely impact your well being.

DO NOT enter any hobby thinking you can, or will, make money off your collectibles, when your interest wanes, or your health fails.

Click to expand...

The best advice.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

DaveDavis said:

DO NOT enter any hobby thinking you can, or will, make money off your collectibles, when your interest wanes, or your health fails.

Click to expand...

Think this is about the best thinking here for the vast majority of people.
Unless you have an incredible number of the rarest guns ever made - and can readily find people willing to pay what they are “worth” - what kind of money do you think you are gonna make here? I mean real money.
Sure you’re gonna turn a profit but how much money do you really think you have? Or your family is going to get as they scramble (literally) to find a place for your collection when your gone. I’ve seen it and I’m sure others here have too. Sure they are a “good investment” I suppose but it’s chump change for most.

I think the focus on money has become the bane of this hobby and we are seeing the negative results. Do it because you like K98’s (or whatever guns) and the history they represent. If you’re looking to make serious money look elsewhere. My two cents on one cup of coffee.

If I collected for money I wouldn’t have a wall of Carcanos, Italian uniforms, and gear..... I think applying cost of living increases that Carcanos are worth less today than when they were being sold for $29 in 1964.

capt14k said:

The best advice.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

In the interest of spending more money on this hobby and exposing myself to further financial burden, capt14k please clear your PM's if possible

Interesting thread. The underlying theme seems to be collectors vs greedy vultures looking to make huge profits. This forum seems to have the cream of the crop, so to speak, of collectors with integrity. It's not always so on other forums and it reminds me of this thread I started on a different forum

http://p38forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33401

About a year before, I had acquired a P38 c block with d block parts and was looking to sell it to fund another purchase. I knew that it was one of the P38's that was put together from parts for the GI's that overran the Walther plant.
My pictures arent that good. So the P38 looks better in person than it shows in the photos. One of the big time collectors there, that has more P38's than I could ever dream of having, sent me a PM trashing the pistols condition (based on the poor photos) claimed it was missing the magazine(?) and offered me a very low ball price or a trade for post war Walther P1 "that you can shoot". I found that insulting so I didn't sell it.

I still have this P38.

MongooseLaw said:

In the interest of spending more money on this hobby and exposing myself to further financial burden, capt14k please clear your PM's if possible

Click to expand...

PMs cleaned up some, and I will be in the office all day today so I can take pics of whatever you need. Sorry for the delay. I'm working on selling sportscards wax boxes lol. Sold enough yesterday to buy a nice matching K98k.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

capt14k said:

..I'm working on selling sportscards wax boxes lol. Sold enough yesterday to buy a nice matching K98k.

Click to expand...

Ok so now you've got my interest here. After your earlier comment about this I look and see an article on Bloomberg business? about the insane prices for sports cards. Think it's time to move some of those boxes I've been moving about for 40+ years.

capt14k said:

Also these higher prices aren't just in firearms, but damn near across all collectibles. Especially sportscards. I was pleasantly surprised to see that all the unopened wax boxes and cases, that at one point I considered putting in the dumpster, are through the roof in price. 1986 Topps Football unopened Wax box $7,500 average sale price. Lucky for me that is when I started collecting heavily. Even 1989 stuff is worth something. Especially Upper Deck Baseball at $15k+ a case. I have 5 cases left from the original 12 I bought. They went from $600 a case when I bought them, to $4k a case, to $400 a case, and quickly. I have a storage unit full of wax cases from 1986-91. It is the wild swings in sportscards and other collectibles that has always made me so hesitant about firearms prices. This time I am selling rather than storing and moving them anymore.

Vintage graded cards are even more insane. 1955 Topps Clemente and Koufax Rookies even in PSA-7 grade are fetching $16k-$50k. PSA-9 Over $1M for a Clemente.

I suppose the free government money combined with the government propping up the stock market and high stock prices are what is driving prices in collectible markets. Will it last? I don't know anymore. Never thought the government would print more money in a year than in the previous 243 years combined.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Yes, the prices for sports cards is incredibly strong right now and I have seen similar sale prices. If you had questioned me in the late 90’s when most of my interest in them waned and I sold most of my collection I would have told you that the new stuff was going to go the way of comic books but that has not really happen. I still have most of the bagged Star Company basketball from the 1984-85 issue and a complete in package set of the first 1988 NFL starting lineup figurines but that is it.

kampfy said:

Yes, the prices for sports cards is incredibly strong right now and I have seen similar sale prices. If you had questioned me in the late 90’s when most of my interest in them waned and I sold most of my collection I would have told you that the new stuff was going to go the way of comic books but that has not really happen. I still have most of the bagged Star Company basketball from the 1984-85 issue and a complete in package set of the first 1988 NFL starting lineup figurines but that is it.

Click to expand...

I just stored mine all these years and I'm happy I did. Anything after 1978 was nearly worthless. Now it's insane even 1986 Topps is worth money. Sealed topps traded Tiffany set sold $6k. That is Bonds true rookie. Nobody wanted Bonds.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

heavy_mech said:

Ok so now you've got my interest here. After your earlier comment about this I look and see an article on Bloomberg business? about the insane prices for sports cards. Think it's time to move some of those boxes I've been moving about for 40+ years.

Click to expand...

Definitely time. I sold 4 1989 Upper Deck Wax boxes yesterday for $2150 shipped. Sealed cases of low number go for $15k I still have 4 cases. 1986 Football Wax boxes are getting $7500. Even 1989 Donruss Wax boxes are $40 or $800 a case. The ones that shocked me the most were 1989 Pro set football $100 a box $2k a case.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

capt14k said:

Definitely time. I sold 4 1989 Upper Deck Wax boxes yesterday for $2150 shipped. Sealed cases of low number go for $15k I still have 4 cases. 1986 Football Wax boxes are getting $7500. Even 1989 Donruss Wax boxes are $40 or $800 a case. The ones that shocked me the most were 1989 Pro set football $100 a box $2k a case.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Damn, that's crazy. I thought cards were worth about 50 cents a pound, unless one of them is a Honus Wagner.

Mr. Barnes said:

Damn, that's crazy. I thought cards were worth about 50 cents a pound, unless one of them is a Honus Wagner.

Click to expand...

Me too. Till I saw 2 stores open near me and started checking eBay sold items.

Want to really be mind blown, check vintage graded card prices. Even a PSA 6 Koufax rookie is $6k PSA 8 $60K Mantle Rookie PSA 2 $10K.

Yeah the prices for 1989 Pro set, and a lot of similar sets made right in the middle of the junk wax era when manufacturers were determined to print enough product so every man, woman and child in the country could own a set. You used to be able to find that and others from that era for easily for around $5.00 a box or less not that long ago.