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Thread: 1917 Danzig/Voigtlander Scharfschutzen-Gewehr 98

  1. #1
    Senior Member chrisftk's Avatar
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    Default 1917 Danzig/Voigtlander Scharfschutzen-Gewehr 98

    First, let me thank Sam, Cyrus and Wolfgang for helping me identify this rifle and Marc for the peer pressure to buy it.

    I picked this up at the recent Amoskeag auction. My gut was that this one was fine after looking the listing over, so I took a chance. I don't typically chase sniper rifles, but this seemed like a nice example for the value.

    The rifle overall is in wonderful shape and is matching except for a weird front band (it looks stamped upside down and may actually be matching--- wouldn't surprise me with Danzig...)

    Some knucklehead disassembled and took the bases off at some point and lost the screws, so they are replacements and need a little fitting to the bases. Otherwise, the rifle is untouched and crisp. The wood is completely untouched and has that nice orange Danzig late finish. From my conversation with Wolfgang, the bases are for a Voigtlander 3x scope with an offset rear mount. The bases are numbered 47 and 52 underneath, but as I learned, these are not linked to the rifle serial number and are not cause for alarm. The patina on the bases matches the parts of the receiver they are mated to, so i have no reason to believe they aren't original to the rifle. While it's a shame the original screws were lost, it's a small distraction.

    The rear sight is also Glasvisier marked.

    My understanding on these was that the completed rifles from the Arsenal were actually converted into snipers by the optics companies (Oigee, Emil Busche, Voigtlander, etc..) That seems to make sense when looking at this one. The bolt was clearly serialized before it was bent, as there is a slight distortion to the markings and SN. The date/SN matches known sniper ranges and "feels" right. The bolt cut-out on the stock looks right as rain.
    The barrel is Bismarckhutte and like many wartime Danzigs, the barrel code and acceptance are visible above the wood.

    In any case, thank you for looking and please let me know if there is anything I missed/misinterpreted. Also, please let me know if anyone has a lead on a correct scope, I would like to complete the rifle if possible.
    Many thanks!

    Receiver 3630 cc
    Barrel 3630 cc (BI 626)
    Front Sight 30
    Rear Sight Leaf 30
    Sight Slider 30
    Ejector Box 30
    Trigger Sear 30
    Front Barrel Band 02 or 30? (possibly stamped upside down)
    Rear Barrel Band 30
    Trigger Guard 3630
    Trigger Guard Screws 30 / 30
    Floor Plate 30
    Follower 30
    Stock 3630
    Handguard 3630
    Buttplate 3630 c
    Bayonet Lug 30
    Cleaning Rod Unnumbered
    Bolt Body 3630 cc (bent)
    Extractor 30
    Safety 30
    Cocking Piece 30
    Bolt Sleeve 30
    Firing Pin 30

    Bases: For 3x Voigtlander scope (front #47, rear #52)

    IMG_20210414_204542135.jpgIMG_20210414_204617255.jpgIMG_20210414_204632030.jpgIMG_20210414_204639918.jpgIMG_20210414_204655182.jpgIMG_20210414_204705077.jpgIMG_20210414_204712526.jpgIMG_20210414_204719279.jpgIMG_20210414_204740874.jpgIMG_20210414_204749761.jpg
    IMG_20210414_204803624.jpgIMG_20210414_204811461.jpgIMG_20210414_204819012.jpgIMG_20210414_204901148.jpgIMG_20210414_204913727.jpgIMG_20210414_204929346.jpgIMG_20210414_204937111.jpgIMG_20210414_205005356.jpgIMG_20210414_205018663.jpgIMG_20210414_205022411.jpg
    Last edited by chrisftk; 04-18-2021 at 10:27 PM.

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  3. #3
    Moderator² Loewe's Avatar
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    Congratulations on a remarkable rifle, not too many have such a nice example (nice stock and bolt matcher), damn unfortunate on the screws... those might be hard to replace? The band i am sure is right, but if you could do a really good shot of the acceptance I can try and see if it is commonly encountered in this range. Same on the stock acceptance under the serial, a direct shot, typically it is C/B but this might be something else, - normally the wrist and lower are solid in patterns, but the serial is perfect, so too the wrist, so this is surely the right-factory stock, but i would like to confirm the lower acceptance as it may lead to a new pattern or a need to reconsider my interpretation of how "reliable" this acceptance is in consistency.

    Anyway, the cc-block of 1917 is certainly one of the most common block ranges for sniper rifles, this makes six from this block and maker. Most aren't as nice as this one!

    You are in "another" rather select "club", having such a nice sniper rifle, - though this is getting to be common with your collecting!

  4. #4
    Senior Member chrisftk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loewe View Post
    Congratulations on a remarkable rifle, not too many have such a nice example (nice stock and bolt matcher), damn unfortunate on the screws... those might be hard to replace? The band i am sure is right, but if you could do a really good shot of the acceptance I can try and see if it is commonly encountered in this range. Same on the stock acceptance under the serial, a direct shot, typically it is C/B but this might be something else, - normally the wrist and lower are solid in patterns, but the serial is perfect, so too the wrist, so this is surely the right-factory stock, but i would like to confirm the lower acceptance as it may lead to a new pattern or a need to reconsider my interpretation of how "reliable" this acceptance is in consistency.

    Anyway, the cc-block of 1917 is certainly one of the most common block ranges for sniper rifles, this makes six from this block and maker. Most aren't as nice as this one!

    You are in "another" rather select "club", having such a nice sniper rifle, - though this is getting to be common with your collecting!
    Thanks for the kind words Paul. I think this was a sleeper at the auction. I think finding the scope is going to be the hard part. I see them pop up. I think patience is key on parts like that.

    Here are the additional pics. The band looks c/M, while the keel acceptance is either damaged, worn or a bad strike. That's my least favorite part about beech. The bottom acceptance rarely fares well..





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    Now I know why Wolfgang asked me whether the bases of my Voigtländer sniper would be matched to the rifle/serialized at all .. haha! Nice rifle of yours. Make sure the person who re-mounts the bases is VERY skilled. The screws need to be oversize in terms of height. When fully attached (torque-wise) then the exact direction of the screw head is filed to the screw and finally they are filed perfectly flat when installed. I'll check my Voigtländer regarding the direction of the screw heads and let you know.

  6. #6
    Senior Member chrisftk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolut View Post
    Now I know why Wolfgang asked me whether the bases of my Voigtländer sniper would be matched to the rifle/serialized at all .. haha! Nice rifle of yours. Make sure the person who re-mounts the bases is VERY skilled. The screws need to be oversize in terms of height. When fully attached (torque-wise) then the exact direction of the screw head is filed to the screw and finally they are filed perfectly flat when installed. I'll check my Voigtländer regarding the direction of the screw heads and let you know.
    Thanks Georg, I appreciate the help and expertise.

    I was curious which friend Wolfgang was asking. Haha.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Absolut View Post
    .... Now I know why Wolfgang asked me whether the bases of my Voigtländer sniper would be matched to the rifle/serialized at all. ....
    Not that surprising.
    There are only a few WWI collectors is trust, and only two of them with an original Voigtländer rifle. Had to make sure!
    The Voigtländer bases I got decades ago from a gunsmith also bear a two-digit (non matching) assembling #'s.
    Thanks!

  8. #8
    Senior Member chrisftk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amberg View Post
    Not that surprising.
    There are only a few WWI collectors is trust, and only two of them with an original Voigtländer rifle. Had to make sure!
    The Voigtländer bases I got decades ago from a gunsmith also bear a two-digit (non matching) assembling #'s.
    Thanks!
    Thanks again for your help Wolfgang.



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    Senior Member mauser1908's Avatar
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    Chris, it's a screamer for sure! Glad you were able to snag it as this is one of the few we will say in detail. I must say, this one did fool me thinking it was an Oigee base. Glad Wolfgang was able to offer his expert assessment on it.

    Wolfgang, with the exception of the 'n' block sniper contract from WMO, have you seen a 1917 or 18 dated sniper that wasn't built on a Danzig rifle? Aside from WMO, I don't have a single one recorded aside from Danzig.

  10. #10
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    From my observations, only Voigtländer assembled rifles have the square locking lever on the rear base and the front base is in a more forward position on the receiver.

    Quote Originally Posted by mauser1908 View Post
    ...... with the exception of the 'n' block sniper contract from WMO, have you seen a 1917 or 18 dated sniper that wasn't built on a Danzig rifle? Aside from WMO, I don't have a single one recorded aside from Danzig.
    That agrees with my observations.
    But you never know what will show up next.

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