Third Party Press

A little disappointed with Vol 3

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Yes, lets...

That you have been allowed to pound this subject so thoroughly to no purpose shows that you are mistaken, - most disagree with you due to your argument being baseless and arrogantly put forward. Any good book on any subject will discuss related production, none of the firms were engaged entirely in rifle production, for most it was a sideline and were making many other things. Often it is useful to study these other things to understand the rifles better. Almost any specialized collector will broaden the scope to glean details that might relate to the primary interest. For instance, the P08, it would be pointless to study HK (Heinrich Krieghoff) production alone, their P08 endeavor was extremely small and minor to their overall production on machineguns, - for SDP (Steyr-bnz) the same could be said, their rifle production was inconsequential in the scope of the company and only through a broader look at their production can we understand the rifles (the swjXE rifles in particular, but how the rifles were made, the variation of markings on early production can only be understood by examining the company in its entirety)

No knowledgeable collector focuses entirely on one product a company makes, all look for cross over information because the rifles were made and influenced by other items, - if a rifle making company made the P08, you would be a fool not to go to books and forums that specialize on the P08, - or MG34/42, MP series, etc...

BTW, who in their right mind think "Sonic is a fantastic place to get fast food", that is a dreadful fast food chain, one of the worst amongst a field full of bad options...


Let's cut through all the BS and get to the nitty-gritty of the opposing comments. It's blatantly obvious that there is a ton of what can only be described as adoration and hero worship for the authors and their work. So NOTHING negative is allowed to be said or believed. The book is sheer perfection and anything negative said about it is blasphemy of the highest order...
 

Steven

Member
[QU. These distractions make it very difficult to follow the subject :moon:[/QUOTE]

A bit like this thread?do hope the rest of the forum is better.:facepalm:
 

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
Look. There's no "hero worship" here. These books aren't by just Bruce and myself, they are a collaboration of collectors from around the country, and around the world.

So, what you did by criticizing the book is you actually criticize them as well. Look at the front of the book- all of those names aren't there for fluff. Those guys spent lifetimes (some of them) researching this subject and freely supplied information and access to collections. Many of those same guys have been promised by others that books were forthcoming when none were. We actually did it with their help and they are (rightly) proud of it.

Again, you are entitled to your opinon. But we are also entitled to tell you that you are wrong in ours.
 

Deputy

Banned
Yes, lets...

That you have been allowed to pound this subject so thoroughly to no purpose shows that you are mistaken, - most disagree with you due to your argument being baseless and arrogantly put forward. Any good book on any subject will discuss related production, none of the firms were engaged entirely in rifle production, for most it was a sideline and were making many other things. Often it is useful to study these other things to understand the rifles better. Almost any specialized collector will broaden the scope to glean details that might relate to the primary interest. For instance, the P08, it would be pointless to study HK (Heinrich Krieghoff) production alone, their P08 endeavor was extremely small and minor to their overall production on machineguns, - for SDP (Steyr-bnz) the same could be said, their rifle production was inconsequential in the scope of the company and only through a broader look at their production can we understand the rifles (the swjXE rifles in particular, but how the rifles were made, the variation of markings on early production can only be understood by examining the company in its entirety)

No knowledgeable collector focuses entirely on one product a company makes, all look for cross over information because the rifles were made and influenced by other items, - if a rifle making company made the P08, you would be a fool not to go to books and forums that specialize on the P08, - or MG34/42, MP series, etc...

BTW, who in their right mind think "Sonic is a fantastic place to get fast food", that is a dreadful fast food chain, one of the worst amongst a field full of bad options...

Awwww...so sorry if my tastes are DIFFERENT than yours. Pound this subject? Good grief sir. What I posted was hardly a "pounding". I have seen book critics rip a book to shreds for a lot less than what I posted. You should be thankful.
I am a bit curious, though. Seems like every moderator on this forum has answered the call to post in this thread. Heck, it almost seems like there are MORE moderators than members on this forum if you check who has posted in this thread.

Now, I will show how big a man I am (compared to other tiny minds in this thread) and apologize to the AUTHORS ONLY. Slash correctly pointed out that "Backbone" also has some pages about non-98k weapons. I missed that and for that I am sorry. Now, is there a thread where I can point out word useage errors in this book? Seems like the spell checker worked okay, but the proof reader must have been eating tater tots while on the job...

Page 277. Second sentence on that page. The word is "effected". It should be "affected". Here's the difference in meaning:
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Affected_vs_Effected
 

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
[QU. These distractions make it very difficult to follow the subject :moon:

A bit like this thread?do hope the rest of the forum is better.:facepalm:[/QUOTE]

No worries, this is not typical of the forum. Do yourself a favor and browse the Picture Database, years of hard work by this forum went into that for your pleasure. And welcome to the forum!
 

Deputy

Banned
Look. There's no "hero worship" here. These books aren't by just Bruce and myself, they are a collaboration of collectors from around the country, and around the world.

So, what you did by criticizing the book is you actually criticize them as well. Look at the front of the book- all of those names aren't there for fluff. Those guys spent lifetimes (some of them) researching this subject and freely supplied information and access to collections. Many of those same guys have been promised by others that books were forthcoming when none were. We actually did it with their help and they are (rightly) proud of it.

Again, you are entitled to your opinon. But we are also entitled to tell you that you are wrong in ours.

Agreed. Never said you didn't have a write to voice them. I am the one that they are attempting to squelch. The hero worship is not a knock on those who worked on the book. I have no doubt great effort was put into it. What I complained about was STRICTLY my opinion. The hero-worshipping comment was aimed at the masses who treat the authors with some kind of special treatment above and beyond what is normal. On second thought, it appears it's not really the "masses" that are after me, but mainly the mods. I am still wondering about so many mods on a relatively small and inactive forum. Are you guys anticipating an invasion from the M1 Garand forum or what? :laugh:
 

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
I am a bit curious, though. Seems like every moderator on this forum has answered the call to post in this thread. Heck, it almost seems like there are MORE moderators than members on this forum if you check who has posted in this thread.

Now, I will show how big a man I am (compared to other tiny minds in this thread) and apologize to the AUTHORS ONLY. Slash correctly pointed out that "Backbone" also has some pages about non-98k weapons. I missed that and for that I am sorry. Now, is there a thread where I can point out word useage errors in this book? Seems like the spell checker worked okay, but the proof reader must have been eating tater tots while on the job...

We usually have about 300-400 different members within a 24hr period. However, as stated, the reason you see Mods in your thread is you've insulted them all since most of the mods here worked hard on this book (and still are).

I accept your apology, but honestly don't feel offended by your comment. Mostly I just can't miss an opportunity to be rude to people who are rude to me. As far as errors in the book, jump in line. Try typing a 400 page book with none, and error and spelling check doesn't catch everything. Neither does having 3 proofreaders (professionals) catch it all. Show me a book with no errors and I'll note it.
 

don w

Senior Member
Hmm, does this guy remind you all of anyone?

Someone with a chip on their shoulder?
Someone who makes unfounded accusations?
Someone who likes to pick fights?

Lets ponder this.
 

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
Let's fix this thread:
 

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mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
More thread repair:
 

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Deputy

Banned
Hmm, does this guy remind you all of anyone?

Someone with a chip on their shoulder?
Someone who makes unfounded accusations?
Someone who likes to pick fights?

Lets ponder this.

Tell you what. If you are trying to do a "guess who", give up. I am not posing under an assumed name or associated with anyone else who may have posted something you object to on the forum. I have no doubt one of the MANY mods-authors has the ability to check my IP address and has probably already done so. Nice try, though. icon7.png
Pic fights??????? Put em' up! Them's fightin' words. Oh brother rolleyes5.gif
If there's a "chip" on my shoulder, it's probably a chocolate chip. I like them.
Unfounded? Did you not SEE the STG44 stuff?

Mr. Farb...I give up. How does pics of rifles "fix this thread".icon5.png
Should I print them out and paste them over the STG pages? icon7.png
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Seeing as you do not want to take Farb's peace offering... which is no surprise, as it was obvious by page two you were not here for constructive criticism... we might as well continue along this path as it beats talking about "real problems".

Tell you what. If you are trying to do a "guess who", give up. I am not posing under an assumed name or associated with anyone else who may have posted something you object to on the forum. I have no doubt one of the MANY mods-authors has the ability to check my IP address and has probably already done so. Nice try, though. View attachment 80106
Pic fights??????? Put em' up! Them's fightin' words. Oh brother View attachment 80108
If there's a "chip" on my shoulder, it's probably a chocolate chip. I like them.
Unfounded? Did you not SEE the STG44 stuff?

Mr. Farb...I give up. How does pics of rifles "fix this thread".View attachment 80107
Should I print them out and paste them over the STG pages? View attachment 80106
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Indeed they are different and just as you have been allowed to express your perspective freely, I can offer a different opinion to why yours are baseless and wrong. Or is it your expectation that only you can offer a different "taste" to what is acceptable?

I am fully aware that other books often get critical reviews, often even more crudely and arrogantly expressed than you have shared with us today, however for that criticism to have merit it should be argued intelligently, - your argument is based simply on a preference in how the rifles are approached, one very few collectors would appreciate. You seem to think that authors should only base a study on observed rifles, not the company, how they were made or the influence other products had on the primary topic (the rifles), as though they were made in a vacuum and there were no outside influences... the wartime conditions had considerable influence on how they were made, even beyond the company the economy and war situation had a profound impact of how the rifles were made.

I would suggest you not get your little heart set on this subject not being broadened further in newer books, if anything the events of 1939-1944 will demand a broader explanation to the variations seen. You cannot separate them unless you are planning on making a simple booklet or "gun show" guidebook.


Awwww...so sorry if my tastes are DIFFERENT than yours. Pound this subject? Good grief sir. What I posted was hardly a "pounding". I have seen book critics rip a book to shreds for a lot less than what I posted. You should be thankful.
 

Deputy

Banned
Indeed they are different and just as you have been allowed to express your perspective freely, I can offer a different opinion to why yours are baseless and wrong. Or is it your expectation that only you can offer a different "taste" to what is acceptable?

I am fully aware that other books often get critical reviews, often even more crudely and arrogantly expressed than you have shared with us today, however for that criticism to have merit it should be argued intelligently, - your argument is based simply on a preference in how the rifles are approached, one very few collectors would appreciate. You seem to think that authors should only base a study on observed rifles, not the company, how they were made or the influence other products had on the primary topic (the rifles), as though they were made in a vacuum and there were no outside influences... the wartime conditions had considerable influence on how they were made, even beyond the company the economy and war situation had a profound impact of how the rifles were made.

I would suggest you not get your little heart set on this subject not being broadened further in newer books, if anything the events of 1939-1944 will demand a broader explanation to the variations seen. You cannot separate them unless you are planning on making a simple booklet or "gun show" guidebook.

And BTW...opinions can neither be right or wrong. As opinions, they are not capable of being judged. They are personal reactions.
So what part of the book are you responsible for? Hopefully not the part where "effected" is misused. That's kind of a high school error.
And please clarify...how do a few random pictures equate with a peace offering????
 

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
And BTW...opinions can neither be right or wrong. As opinions, they are not capable of being judged. They are personal reactions.
So what part of the book are you responsible for? Hopefully not the part where "effected" is misused. That's kind of a high school error.
And please clarify...how do a few random pictures equate with a peace offering????

It's pretty clear you are trolling now. Please stop posting on our forum and remove yourself. I'm asking you nicely so as to save you the embarrassment of doing it myself. You obviously just want to antagonize everyone, seems your original posting was meant just for that.

We are a family here, we all get along and help each other. Some folks just can't do that and I can appreciate that. This forum is obviously not up to your level.

I leave you with my two favorite quotes. "Life is too short to suffer fools." and "You can't save everybody."
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Is that an opinion or a fact?

And BTW...opinions can neither be right or wrong. As opinions, they are not capable of being judged. They are personal reactions.

As for affect vs. effect, if you are asking do I confuse verbs with nouns, yes sometimes. As for the peace offering, it was an "opinion" of Mikes motive, it could have been wrong, but I have known him for awhile now and he typically isn't confrontational.

So what part of the book are you responsible for? Hopefully not the part where "effected" is misused. That's kind of a high school error.
And please clarify...how do a few random pictures equate with a peace offering????
 

jack944

Senior Member
My complaint

Only Bruce signed my Volume ! not Mike...:moon: I guess he got a big head after Vol. 3........:googlie
 

denny gaither

Moderator - RIP
Partial Quote
Now, I will show how big a man I am (compared to other tiny minds in this thread) and apologize to the AUTHORS ONLY. Slash correctly pointed out that "Backbone" also has some pages about non-98k weapons. I missed that and for that I am sorry. Now, is there a thread where I can point out word useage errors in this book? Seems like the spell checker worked okay, but the proof reader must have been eating tater tots while on the job...

Page 277. Second sentence on that page. The word is "effected". It should be "affected". Here's the difference in meaning:

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Affected_vs_Effected


And BTW...opinions can neither be right or wrong. As opinions, they are not capable of being judged. They are personal reactions.
So what part of the book are you responsible for? Hopefully not the part where "effected" is misused. That's kind of a high school error.
And please clarify...how do a few random pictures equate with a peace offering????


Partial Quote
Agreed. Never said you didn't have a write http://www.diffen.com/difference/Right_vs_Write to voice them. I am the one that they are attempting to squelch. The hero worship is not a knock on those who worked on the book. I have no doubt great effort was put into it. What I complained about was STRICTLY my opinion. The hero-worshipping comment was aimed at the masses who treat the authors with some kind of special treatment above and beyond what is normal. On second thought, it appears it's not really the "masses" that are after me, but mainly the mods. I am still wondering about so many mods on a relatively small and inactive forum. Are you guys anticipating an invasion from the M1 Garand forum or what? :laugh:

Hmmmm, what's that old saying about glass houses and stones?

respectfully,
Denny Gaither
(One of the proof reader/spell checkers)

p.s. I love tater tots....
 
Last edited:

mauser99

Senior Member
you think you are disappointed.. my copy had a nude centerfold of Bruce and Mike ! :facepalm:

the two pages of mp44 info is nothing compared to that...
 

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