Third Party Press

Another Gew-88

chrisftk

Senior Member
Ok, these I decided to keep, but really didn't want them to be public knowledge. My three KM '01 DWM Gew98's, consecutive serial #'d, all 3 to the Ist Seebatalion. Of course with nice KM lids & 1st pattern slings. Don't even ask for pics...
Damn Mike, holding back the private stock? Lol. Be honest, you have consecutive sets for the other two Seebattalions as well, right? 😉
 

ernie8

Senior Member
I do not use your photos for anything other than telling you what you have or what the markings mean . You are exactly right , saying things on the net is hard to prove without photos . The photos are the proof . Also since I do not have a cell phone , the comment about 99% does not really apply , but it sure was clever . Most of you live to photo your rifles to show them off , I do not have that need . The rifle I got was nothing really special , it just turned out to be a good one when it came in . I did not think it was anything to keep secret or lie about , It looks just like all the other 91 Ambergs , I could have posted photos from whatever and you would not have known . I wonder what an original 7.9x57 chamber is , just shows a non understanding of the rifles . If you had a bunch of rifle to measure you would know there is no such thing . They are my rifles and I can do with them what I like , just as you can do whatever you like with yours . I thought there was a little better class of people here than on places like gunboards , you make fun of them, but then act like them .
 

Warrior1354

ax - hole
We are a better class we have a massive picture library here that you are free to browse, because other members took the time to take pictures of their rifles to share their information. Imagine if that didn't exist. Imagine if nobody took pictures of their own rifles here, and shared them. You would have no additional information available to you. Only your own findings that you have discovered in your own collection, and from the thousands of rifles you say you have shot throughout the years. Many here contributed to the Hobby. The only thing you have contributed is your own findings, and your own research. But you show no documents or pictures of evidence it's just your word. Again how many members here have you asked could you please show a picture of a certain part for me? What if they would have said "No I'm showing no pictures take my word for it" Would that have answered your questions in your research? I think not.

And I do have that early first production 1889 erfurt in the collection. And it is 100% matching, in the early 8x57J caliber no S marking on the receiver. Good condition too, but no pictures. Take my word for it it is in spectacular condition.
 

runner

Senior Member
i think blasting Ernie because he doesn’t post photos is inappropriate. I post photos, and would more often if it were more user friendly, resizing every photo gets time consuming. Maybe when I “really” retire I will have the time to post enough to get good at it.
Their are multiple ways to contribute to this forum, posting photos is one, sharing knowledge is another.
From his posts, it is obvious that Ernie has spent large amounts of time gathering data on 88’s, and he has freely shared that data. His data gathering and research have helped to dispel lots of miss information on these pre 98 rifles.
Any time someone posts questions about a Gew. 88, I find myself waiting for his reply.
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
While I think Ernie is often unnecessarily confrontational and even rude (at times), I tend to look the other way (compared to an equally "rude" ignoramus) because he does provide a special insight (practical application and a technical-mechanical view to these complicated rifles, often with a historical context...) .

Bottom line for me, and this has always been true, real collectors, people that have the most to offer (potentially) get a little more latitude than some novice. This may not be fair, but the potential value Ernie offers (as he said he does give answers or insight other can't or will not provide - he is a researcher, an arrogant one, but his research makes it worth dealing with his shit... imo) is the key difference as he adds value to the forum in a critical area (and that is my bottom line, does his presence outweigh his liabilities... in my book they do)
 

PrayingMantis

Senior Member
Here’s my thing about it all: pictures are completely up to the owner, there’s no shame in keeping your stuff hid and only making encouraging comments. Everyone has their reasons, even if they make no sense. I post photos to try to be helpful, and strive to photograph every marking so that others can make comparisons. I use photos to prove my points and illustrate what I’m saying and expect the same from other contributors when they are making an argument. However, if you’re not going to post photos to prove your point, I’m not going to buy your argument. If you are a dick and also don’t post photos, I’m especially not going to take your word. I do not trust someone making claims based on their word who says they have the examples to prove it but refuses to show them. It’s like the Gew reports from the ‘90s based solely on descriptions; the people making the descriptions weren’t reliable so their reports are flawed. Simple photos could remedy this.
For that reason, I do not trust anyone who does not take the time to photo their examples. I will not trust that you have what you say and I will not believe your assertions based on the observations you claim to have made. If you’re too paranoid to share visual information you could be too paranoid to share reliable written information. And I outright resent a post that merely says “I got this, but you’ll never f*cking see it.” That’s not only not helpful, but detracts from the quality of this forum.
 
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Cyrano4747

Well-known member
I will not trust that you have what you say and I will not believe your assertions based on the observations you claim to have made.

This is the big one for me. I’ve had to sort through soooooo much bad info over the years that got collected and passed down in previous decades by researchers (and “researchers”) who never showed their work, never provided examples, and either made mistakes or knowingly passed along fantasy pieces for either money or ego reasons.

It’s a huge problem in this hobby. A LOT of the older books are full of questionable info. Really only in the last 25 years or so do you see a much stronger emphasis on proper archival research and large studies of surviving weapons. The internet was a huge part of that. People taking to each other, sharing their collections, and becoming aware of better research practices. As someone who has done academic research professionally it’s really, really apparent when working with a more modern set of materials (Storz, the K98k volumes, Weaver’s books etc vs something like the old WHB Smith books or Götz’s, or Law’s old standby BBotW)

No one is infallible and no researcher is free of error. God knows I’ve had my own spotted by colleagues in the past. And when someone says “hey that doesn’t sound right” you need to be able to trace everyone’s footsteps and reasoning so you can either prove you’re right or realize you misunderstood a document of the gun you were basing your finding off of wasn’t as original as you thought etc.
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
I agree that most older books are problematic, though most have some merit for their historical context (Storz especially) or being brave enough to stick it out there with limited means to form a foundation for their speculation... and it is all largely speculation as we are speculating based upon a miniscule sample or observations.

As for acting like Gunboards or other forums, - no one here, certainly not these two forums have been "censored" or curtailed in anyway from speaking their mind (as long was profanity is minimized and no threats or violence is expressed...); I would say very few forums or internet sites offer free expression to the degree as offered here. I do not think Ernie has been victimized in anyway, others have a right to question his views or opinions, as he does frequently, - that will not change due to any forum action.

Bottom line, say what you believe, even if what you believe is ridiculous and the only consequence will be contrary views and possibly ridicule, perhaps some condescension or hurtful comment (you're a dummy etc..) but as long as no violence or excessive profanity or a participation dominated by insults and name calling, you will not be censored (by me anyway - I will say if some nitwit becomes disruptive or in my view harmful to the purpose the forum exists, I will act, assuming Mike or Hambone do not beat me to it...)

My bottom line is I will support anyone who furthers the purpose of this forum. And will act (censor) when that is threatened by some disruptive individual - and I have proven this by "acting" against only one individual since the founding of this forum, a crazed Serbian 10 years ago (and his posts were not deleted, only his expulsion...), no other editing or censoring has occurred here... This forum does not act like other forums of this nature.
 

chrisftk

Senior Member
and I have proven this by "acting" against only one individual since the founding of this forum, a crazed Serbian 10 years ago (and his posts were not deleted, only his expulsion...), no other editing or censoring has occurred here... This forum does not act like other forums of this nature.
Crazed Serbian? Was he threatening the Hapsburg Monarchy or brandishing a FN1910? Just curious :ROFLMAO:

In all seriousness, I agree and fully support the open environment here-- short of stealing from a member, I rarely see anyone booted unless they go beyond the pale-- thanks for all you do Paul.
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
I think it was about ten years ago, like most Eastern European collectors or participants they can be touchy their culture and great (famous) people, historical past, leaders, soldiers and philosophers or inventors.... he started off with some good insights to a Serbian arms inventor or such, as I recall it had some connection to WMO, but naturally being Serbian he finally got around to Tesla, who by any standards was one of the greatest men of the late 19th and early twentieth century. Anyway, it went down hill fast, perhaps because Tesla's greatness to a degree was possible only because of his work in Austria, Budapest, Paris and most of all the United States.

I searched and it was 2014:

https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/kosta-milovanovic.11926/
 

Cyrano4747

Well-known member
I think it was about ten years ago, like most Eastern European collectors or participants they can be touchy their culture and great (famous) people, historical past, leaders, soldiers and philosophers or inventors.... he started off with some good insights to a Serbian arms inventor or such, as I recall it had some connection to WMO, but naturally being Serbian he finally got around to Tesla, who by any standards was one of the greatest men of the late 19th and early twentieth century. Anyway, it went down hill fast, perhaps because Tesla's greatness to a degree was possible only because of his work in Austria, Budapest, Paris and most of all the United States.

I searched and it was 2014:

https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/kosta-milovanovic.11926/
Oh god I actually remember that guy. As I recall he had some WILD claims about Koka being the secret brains who Paul basically stole the plans for everything from the 71/84 through the m98 from.
 
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