Third Party Press

Drawing on K98k woodwork?

I often see this drawing on the internet. I wonder where it came from? It is assumed that it was originally made by Mauser and was redrawn in Suhl after 1945. What does the abbreviation mean? Is there a reliable source for this drawing?Screenshot_20220805_095418.jpg
 
Ok, that was a misunderstanding. It's not about what's drawn. My question is who made this drawing and whether there is an similar one from before 1945, e.g. B. from Mauser or other firms that where involved in manufacturing the K98k. The most interesting thing would be to know if there is an source, and which kind of source for this drawing.
 

Büenzli

Member
Ok, that was a misunderstanding. It's not about what's drawn. My question is who made this drawing and whether there is an similar one from before 1945, e.g. B. from Mauser or other firms that where involved in manufacturing the K98k. The most interesting thing would be to know if there is an source, and which kind of source for this drawing.

Whoops, my bad. Well, i can look for some german databases. But i doubt there will be something solid, since either a collector has archived footage, actual paper or just copies of this.

Sadly the signature is unreadable, there is no index number to this page, though the date might help.

I will keep my eyes open!
 
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mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
I’ve seen a lot of original drawings but have not seen this one. Bruce has a copy of the TL documents, this seems like it should be one of them.
 

RyanE

Baby Face
Staff member
Its an East German drawing, and I doubt it was a copy of anything from Mauser. Looks like this is used when fitting new stocks on reworked guns in the 1950s.

Drawing was made by "L.u.J.W". J.W could be for Jagdwaffenwerk, but I'm not sure who this could be. You had the VEB Fahrzeug- und Gerätewerk Simson Suhl in the 1950s and later on the VEB Fahrzeug- und Jagdwaffenwerk "Ernst Thälmann", but I'm guessing "L und JW" was probably an early name for one of the weapons factories in the early 1950s.
 

Büenzli

Member
Its an East German drawing, and I doubt it was a copy of anything from Mauser. Looks like this is used when fitting new stocks on reworked guns in the 1950s.

Drawing was made by "L.u.J.W". J.W could be for Jagdwaffenwerk, but I'm not sure who this could be. You had the VEB Fahrzeug- und Gerätewerk Simson Suhl in the 1950s and later on the VEB Fahrzeug- und Jagdwaffenwerk "Ernst Thälmann", but I'm guessing "L und JW" was probably an early name for one of the weapons factories in the early 1950s.

Could the L stand for "Lehranstalt"? Im just curious since looking up the Werk in Suhl, a 1840 insitution fully named "Lehranstalt für Militärbüchsenmacher": Educational Facility for military gunsmiths is mentioned.

Just a far thrown guess on my end...


Unbenannt.PNG

1840: Opening of "School" for Mil. Gunsmiths
1910: German Technical School for the Rifle industry established
1992: State-made Profession school for gunsmiths
 
Thanks for the input.
If there is an similar Mauser drawing i am wondering that it is not found in any literature.
The specifications of the drawing are almost impossible to implement, it would take hours to shaft a system like this. Differences between "fixed" and "loose" seats are conceivable, but almost impossible to implement. Sufficient shafts were available in the GDR - why all this effort? At the time of the drawing, 1952, Wehrmacht material was available in large quantities and was used in the GDR. For me this drawing has a lot of questions.

Also the "L.u.J.W" fits to nothing known, for me as an german citizen all ideas came to this are not logic, sorry.
In the story of the BÜHAG is nothing that fits to this abbreviation.
 
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RyanE

Baby Face
Staff member
Digging a bit and the closest match I could find is VEB MEWA Jagdgewehr und Lehrenbau Werk (formerly Greifelt & Co.) in Suhl. Order of the letters isn't exactly right, but details on DDR stuff is thin in English. Maybe the order changed at some point.

Or L.u.J.W is something completely different. A repair facility of some kind maybe.
 
Lehr- und Instandsetzungswerkstatt
Possible, but what we see is an "W" as single Wort. In combination as given on the drawing it makes no sense.
There are two books about this time

- "BÜHAG", Zimmermann /Arfmann 2019
- "Die Faustfeuerwaffen der bewaffneten Organe der SBZ/DDR", D.Marschall, 2001

both books giving nothing that compares to "L.u. J. W".

The font is also a mystery, it is not Sütterlin type, but also not a German typeface from around 1950.

I think the key to this drawing is lying in the not known source, the more I deal with it, the greater my doubts as to whether this is an original.
 

Muncher 1953

Senior Member
Thanks for the input.
If there is an similar Mauser drawing i am wondering that it is not found in any literature.
The specifications of the drawing are almost impossible to implement, it would take hours to shaft a system like this. Differences between "fixed" and "loose" seats are conceivable, but almost impossible to implement. Sufficient shafts were available in the GDR - why all this effort? At the time of the drawing, 1952, Wehrmacht material was available in large quantities and was used in the GDR. For me this drawing has a lot of questions.

Also the "L.u.J.W" fits to nothing known, for me as an german citizen all ideas came to this are not logic, sorry.
In the story of the BÜHAG is nothing that fits to this abbreviation.
I’ll have to leave it to those more knowledgable than I to vet its source & authenticity, but
I found the data (thank you Buenzli for the translation!) to be of interest, & seems to me the dimensions aren’t impossible to meet. (not trying to be argumentative) I look at it more for getting the general idea for where close fit & loose fit should be, how loose, etc. I’m certainly not going to modify a matching stock to meet those specs, but I might measure one some day, & use the relationships to better understand stocks I’m fitting.

Even if it turns out to be turd info, a product of too much beer in an east German back room in the 60s or a pure decoration, I doubt the graphic artist would be able to make up the tech info that is contained here, it is too logical to have been made up by a non gunsmithing person. Even given pallets of available used wartime stocks, if you are refurbishing rifles in peacetime, I’d think you’d still want to cull the broken/warped stocks from the pile, & many folks do things better given rules to follow. It was probably ‘busy work’ during the Cold War for good party members……
I enjoyed the colloquial expressions for some of the dimensioned features, even at the risk of misunderstanding them.
Sometimes, language shapes thoughts.
 

Büenzli

Member
It was probably ‘busy work’ during the Cold War for good party members……
I enjoyed the colloquial expressions for some of the dimensioned features, even at the risk of misunderstanding them.
Sometimes, language shapes thoughts.

It is a shame that the one that signed and thus created it is like a doctors handwriting: non-readable.

The fact that this technical drawing has no official number, no "Ersatz für" (replacement for) a certain document, really makes it look like its just a temporary piece or for very specific purposes.

Another thought to this: Maybe its a conversion paper for similar stocks that have just enough material to work them into K98 ones? eh, probably a brainfart on my end due to a 1 litre Faxe beer heh
 

Muncher 1953

Senior Member
That it could be or was intended to be seen as a “shop floor” instructional working “blueprint” would make sense as these are common in manufacturing, & drive ‘quality assurance’ folks crazy.

Conversion drawing: yes, perhaps. stocks made for 6.5 or 7mm of closely similar barrel length to K98k.

‘Barley Therapy’ is good, when the time is right!
 

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