Third Party Press

duv 40 Commonwealth capture

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
duv 40 capture with Commonwealth markings and Commonwealth Military Provost / Military Police disc. The AA broad arrow could be Alexandria Arsenal depot, in Egypt. None of these rifles show up later than 1941 and all so identified with the AA broad arrow stock marking and a few with capture discs are all dated within the period of supply to the DAK and Afrika would be the logical place to assume such a large capture of K98k rifles so dated.
 

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pzjgr

EOD - bombs and bullets
Wow Ham, that is really cool! I used to be heavily into collecting Enfields too, still have about 10 really nice ones...I would love to find one of these to bridge the gap!
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Pzjgr, tks, they turn up. I collect Enfields as well. These are all AA broad arrow. Oddly, the reported ones have been byf 41s, mostly duv 41s, and a couple duv 40s. Jack944 has one. A few have had the property disc. Years ago I was chasing one that had the AA, property disc, and was British nitro proofed, having made it back to the UK. The evidence strongly suggests British/Commonwealth capture from the DAK, then surplus to/use by a Commonwealth such as India, Malaysia, etc.
 

pzjgr

EOD - bombs and bullets
Have you figured out the unit marking on the stock disc? That may be helpful too in determining where it came from...match the unit to the locale...

I have Skennerton's "Broad Arrow" which has a lot of unit abbreviations, if you don't have it I can check when I get home from vacation next week...

PS One of my favorites is an Aussie property marked No 1, with a 1 FAB HQ marking disc....the 1st Field Artillery Battalion was an Aussie unit at Gallipopli, and they changed their designation and marking when they transferred to Eurpope...so there is a good chance that Enfield was at Gallipoli...
 

Tater792

Member
HB , VERY nice . I've never seen one of those marked as such . I wonder how many more are out there with commonwealth markings , i'd assume most ended up in other empire countries ? Rifles and gear from the DAK seem rare to begin with . Thanks for the pics !
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Do that Jack. I believe yours is the same, but without the disc. My take on these is that they were DAK capture rifles and the AA broad arrow is either Allhalabad (sic) Arsenal in India, or Alexandria Arsenal in Egypt. The AA marking shows they went through there for inspect, likely destined for distribution in the Commonwealth. Those with discs were actually used by MP units and assigned unit numbers, either for training or actual use. Mine was had the bolt stop ledge on the follower milled down so that the bolt does not stay open on an empty magazine. That's the same as a SMLE and No.4. Mine was obviously well used, a combat carried weapon. Many are. The majority of these are duv 41, then byf 41, then duv 40, all are Heer marked. I've never seen one that was not one of those codes. Have about six recorded.
 

jsz

Senior Member
I have a matching 36 or 37 Oberndorf, AA marked, missing disk. It does have another marking on receiver, small proof or?
Will try to get photos soon

Jeff
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Jeff, do post. I believe you've posted those before, way back? IN any event I think yours is one of the earlier rifles.
 

jsz

Senior Member
Here is photos of my matching S/42 code, 1936. Very quick on the photos will try to get more time to do another photo of the receiver shot with unknown proof?
Jeff
 

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jsz

Senior Member
More photos.
 

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Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Tks for posting Jsz. They all have the AA over broad arrow inspection in the buttstock. Some have the disc inletted, many more don't. That AA broad arrow means they went through the same arsenal for inspection. The disc was inletted right under or on top of of the AA inspection.

On Enfields this AA inspection has been found on an Indian SMLE with a Gurkha unit that also was stationed in Alexandria Egypt. It has also been found on a K98k with stock painting indicating Srilankan police use. If I had to bet money it would be that:
1) These are Afrika Korps rifles captured by Commonwealth forces;
2) They went through either Alexandria Arsenal in Egypt, the main supply point for North Africa; or
4) They went through Allhalabad Arsenal in India;

There is evidence these rifles were used by Commonwealth countries (or ex) in proximity to India, such as Sri Lanka.
 

ESS

Member
disc

I have a MP 214 disc, All Matching byf 41. Anyone know the origin?

Pics to follow.
 

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D-K

Senior Member
This is likely the same rifle Hambone refers to--I posted it on Gunboards some time ago and he assisted in verifying what it was. The stock was very crudely refinished: they covered the metal in addition to the wood. Not much finish left, but the bore is solid excellent and it is all matching except the rod. It looks very similar to your rifle except it lacks the stock disk.
 

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ESS

Member
It sure does.

My Rifle is in really nice shape, but had to have been used given the stock marks. What are the values of these rifles?
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
D-K, thanks much for the pics! I have some of that stock marking somewhere. I've been chasing down the story on these and have the source importer (from the 60s) identified along with where they came from. As soon as I get this nailed down more I will post.

The "RP" is Regimental Police. Most of these tend to have that connection, i.e. an MP (Military Provost i.e., military police) disc or stock markings. The SRI could be Sri Lanka. These rifles have an India nexus. India, of course, was a supply point for and contributed troops to the North African campaign. What we know is all of these rifles are '41 or earlier and were used, and were captured/sourced through a Commonwealth country. Where else would a large number of 1941 and earlier K98ks be captured by a Commonwealth country? North Africa. The AA indicates either Alexandria Arsenal/Armory in Egypt (a major supply/depot facility) or Alhallabad Arsenal in India. The only SMLE with this AA / broad arrow mark was a Gurkha SMLE with connections to both India and Alexandria, Egypt. Stay tuned, and thanks for posting it!

Regards,
Hambone
 

D-K

Senior Member
It sure does.

My Rifle is in really nice shape, but had to have been used given the stock marks. What are the values of these rifles?

I bought mine about two years ago in an Auction Arms auction for $1,250. The seller knew what it was and described it honestly; however, his pictures were not very good so I think that helped me get that price.

If your rifle is all matching and was auctioned with good pictures, I think it likely it could do $1,500 or better if there are no major condition issues and it is all matching. Thanks for posting it.
 

Mauser8MM

Registered
my and ur duv 40

duv 40 capture with Commonwealth markings and Commonwealth Military Provost / Military Police disc. The AA broad arrow could be Alexandria Arsenal depot, in Egypt. None of these rifles show up later than 1941 and all so identified with the AA broad arrow stock marking and a few with capture discs are all dated within the period of supply to the DAK and Afrika would be the logical place to assume such a large capture of K98k rifles so dated.

WOW my rifle is 4646, urs is 4635, ours were like same day most likely made
 

digimatt

Member
Lucky find!

Here's another one. It's a 42 (byf), 1940; all parts matching, with A^A cartouche above a brass stock disk marked MP 7. It also has some residual white paint on the right side of the buttstock, but the letters are illegible. It looks like there may have been six characters or so, in two rows. The condition of the stock and action are good, but the barrel end and upper band finish are worn. The bore is excellent. I'll post photos as soon as I figure out how.

I picked this up accidentally as part of an auction lot that included two 98k's, a french capture k98a, and a g33/40. I was after the g33/40; so this was icing on the cake! I didn't know what I had until I did a little research and found this, and the other threads. Any additional info that anyone can provide would be would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to all you experts from a noob!

Best.

BTW, it had an original sling on it that is in such good shape that I initially thought it was a repro. The only marks I can find on it are, what looks like, a lower case g or 8 on the unfinished side about 4" down from the buckle, and some very faded writing (looks like someone's name) in what looks like red ink about 8" up from the keeper end. No cleaning rod or sight hood.
 

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