Third Party Press

Estate Handguns

Absolut

Senior Member
I'm not that deep into handguns, but recently came across a larger estate that I bought fully, but passed the great mass off to a dealer at an attractive price. I kept for myself what I liked, and while this anyway was too much, I'm currently really enjoying these items.

Among them are several very nice German handguns which I thought I should share:
1. Astra 300 in 9mm kurz, WaA251 accepted
2. FN 10/22 in 7.65mm, I've been told this is rare late commercial production and that production was ceased in the following c-Block
3. P.08 byf41 coded, all matching numbers. Is this what is referred as "Black Widow", and are the black bakelite (?) floorplate magazines correct to this pistol? I got two of them with the pistol
4. P.08 Mauser Banner 1942, probably the best gun in the estate being a rare Eagle L Police handgun, plus it comes with matching numbers magazine as "icing on the cake"!
5. P.08 Mauser S/42 coded (I've been told there were also S42 coded ones in the same year, but S/42 should be rarer?) from 1939, aside of magazine all matching numbers

Due to picture limitation more in a second post.
 

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Absolut

Senior Member
6. Mauser P.38, byf44 coded. Nothing rare, but nice condition with a mirror bright barrel
7. Walther HP. Also a very cool gun. It was post WWII re-used by the Austrian Army, hence the Eagle BH acceptance. They also serialized the slide on the outside to the pistol, despite being all matching numbers anyway
8. Mauser P.38 svw45 coded, finished under French occupation and with the metal grips. Also post WWII reused by Austrian Army.
9. VIS Radom, seems to be an earlier high quality finish with deep black near perfect blueing.

Some more guns were in that were not German, but thought I'd share the German ones only in here since they belong to the topic to this forum.
 

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mb44kar

Senior Member
I'm not huge into handguns either but the P38s and Lugers look nice. I've been meaning to get into Lugers but it seems I'll need a(nother) 3-piece book set to validate any examples I come across, so I've avoided it. For some reason seeing both the S and F paint holding up on P38s really gets me. Nice haul.
 

zacker

Senior Member
nice 41 luger, yeah grips make it a black widow & mags are correct, congrats..
 

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phillynick

Senior Member
You have picked up many very nice items. It's a great start to a WWII German hand gun collection. Just be careful, it can be addicting!


2. FN 10/22 in 7.65mm, I've been told this is rare late commercial production and that production was ceased in the following c-Block
I do not believe that to be accurate. That is a b block, which would have been made prior to the c block. There's many commercial production 1922s in the letter blocks. They are not as rare as the commercial FN Hi Powers. Immediately after the c block there are A (non-cursive) prefix serial numbers which were immediate post liberation.


3. P.08 byf41 coded, all matching numbers. Is this what is referred as "Black Widow", and are the black bakelite (?) floorplate magazines correct to this pistol? I got two of them with the pistol
Yes, "Black Widow" was a marketing term used in the US post war to sell surplus items. You have an a block. Here is a serial number study: https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/1940-1941-dates-military-codes-42-and-byf-data.3695/


5. P.08 Mauser S/42 coded (I've been told there were also S42 coded ones in the same year, but S/42 should be rarer?) from 1939, aside of magazine all matching numbers
That is also correct, only a few letter blocks, maybe 25,000, were made with the S/42 format. I believe you are in the middle with the o block. See a study done here: https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/1939-s-42-and-1939-42-data-request.11442/


8. Mauser P.38 svw45 coded, finished under French occupation and with the metal grips. Also post WWII reused by Austrian Army.
This item would have been completely produced under French occupation. Some random c-f block were finished under French production, some G block were finished and some were produced, all H-L would have been produced. The output was roughly 10K per month with the complete German 3 acceptance stamped ending in the 2000-3000f range. I don't think there are any F block above 3500f, maybe even lower. The French skipped the end of the F and started clean at G.
 
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mdarnell19

Beavis Moderator Intern
Staff member
byf 41 Luger a block would have been issued with 2 matching mags. So that is not the original mag for the pistol.

If I remember correctly, Mauser stopped numbering mags in the U block.
 

Zeppelin5000

Senior Member
byf 41 Luger a block would have been issued with 2 matching mags. So that is not the original mag for the pistol.

If I remember correctly, Mauser stopped numbering mags in the U block.


That’s about right. They went to fxo mags by that point and into 1942.
 

Peter S

Senior Member
byf 41 Luger a block would have been issued with 2 matching mags. So that is not the original mag for the pistol.

If I remember correctly, Mauser stopped numbering mags in the U block.

The "u" block is when they stopped numbering mags, but in 41 the "a" block came after the "u" block. Mauser P08s did not restart serial numbers at the beginning of each year. In 1941 the serial numbers started somewhere in the "n" block. So an "a" block would be correct with the black mags.
 

phillynick

Senior Member
The "u" block is when they stopped numbering mags, but in 41 the "a" block came after the "u" block. Mauser P08s did not restart serial numbers at the beginning of each year. In 1941 the serial numbers started somewhere in the "n" block. So an "a" block would be correct with the black mags.

He's right you know ^^

Look at the serial study I posted. BYF 41 started in the O block and continued through Z and reset to NLS and then started A through B. The BYF P.38s followed the same roll over strategy. I believe the K98ks did the same?

Yes, "Black Widow" was a marketing term used in the US post war to sell surplus items. You have an a block. Here is a serial number study: https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/1940-1941-dates-military-codes-42-and-byf-data.3695/
 
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mdarnell19

Beavis Moderator Intern
Staff member
The "u" block is when they stopped numbering mags, but in 41 the "a" block came after the "u" block. Mauser P08s did not restart serial numbers at the beginning of each year. In 1941 the serial numbers started somewhere in the "n" block. So an "a" block would be correct with the black mags.

Ah. Good to know. Thanks for the correction.
 

Absolut

Senior Member
The knowledge in here is amazing, thank you!

Great to get confirmed the magazines are original to the byf41 P.08 pistol. Would this pistol originally had been issued with one, two or three magazines?

Regarding the S/42 from 1939: the chart posted at the beginning does help. But not sure how the correct magazine to this gun looks like. Were the magazines matched to this pistol, which floorplate did they have in this year, aluminum/zinc/wood?

Re the FN 10/22: I only repeated what I've been told. The pistol does not have Wehrmacht proofs, it has commercial proofs. phillynick, not sure what was wrong with what I said - I said it is a b block and I've been told they stopped production in the following c block. You basically repeat this and say anything post the c block was post WWII made. Please let me know where I in particular got something wrong, want to make sure I got everything correct on this one. Thanks!

Re the svw45: so the full gun was made under French control? Just to get it confirmed. Thanks!
 

Peter S

Senior Member
The byf 41 would have had one mag in the pistol and one spare.

The 1939 S/42 "o" block had blued folded steel mags with an aluminum bottom. They would have had the full serial number w/ suffix and an eagle 63 proof, The spare mag would also have a "+" on it.
 

mike radford

Senior Member
The byf 41 would have had one mag in the pistol and one spare.

The 1939 S/42 "o" block had blued folded steel mags with an aluminum bottom. They would have had the full serial number w/ suffix and an eagle 63 proof, The spare mag would also have a "+" on it.

You got some nice ones. Congratulations.

Your P block Radom is near mid production. It has very high condition for a P block. The Finish dropped off after Eagle production, the pre-Alpha guns through about C block still had a nice polish and high quality finish. The Eagles were very high polish and rust blue. Fitting was match grade. The finger relief cuts were dropped in the L block, which yours properly lacks. Very nice P block though.
 

Absolut

Senior Member
Peter S, your knowledge is overwhelming! Thank you! They have a box somewhere still with them where a few mags are in, plus somewhere also a few holsters. I really wonder ...

Mike, that was what I thought too. The condition of the Radom is really amazing. Plus it is all matching, also the barrel which is mirror bright.
 

Absolut

Senior Member
Well, visited them again yesterday for that box with magazines, and guess what I pulled from it:
The 1939 S/42 "o" block had blued folded steel mags with an aluminum bottom. They would have had the full serial number w/ suffix and an eagle 63 proof, The spare mag would also have a "+" on it.
BOTH original matching magazines to this pistol! What a great rig it is now!

Unfortunately so far not the second matching mag to the Police Banner Luger - but he said they still have a garage they need to clean and he is sure they will find some more stuff in there. So I'll have to be patient a bit longer.
 

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Absolut

Senior Member
Sure, these are the situations where the purchase of a few magazines makes you happier than the original purchase of a handgun! And best thing is that there is still a chance the Police Mauser Banner Luger pistol could possibly get its original matching numbers magazine as well.
 

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