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Import marks

Gerst

Senior Member
I am looking at an auction for a rifle which has some interesting and desirable parts. I am particularly interested in the stock which doesn’t go with the barreled receiver which is import marked.

How much do import marks affect the value of a rifle, or part?

Gerst
 

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Gerst

Senior Member
" one mans garbage is another treasure" You got that right. That rifle has been around the forums and the auctions for awhile now. The bolt is a total mismatch, and not desirable to most, but I "need it" for a restoration I am working on. Just can not bring myself to spring for the asking price on this one, just to get the bolt.

The fellow selling it bought several rifles from the estate of an elderly gentlemen who had rifles all over his house, some in closets under trash and debris. The rifle is as he found it, probably assembled by someone using loose parts. If it doesn’t sell for the present price I think he plans to re-list at a lower price. It still doesn’t make sense to buy it for the bolt, but the Simson parts are pretty nice.
 

chrisftk

Senior Member
I am looking at an auction for a rifle which has some interesting and desirable parts. I am particularly interested in the stock which doesn’t go with the barreled receiver which is import marked.

How much do import marks affect the value of a rifle, or part?

Gerst
That is not an easy question to answer... It depends.

If a common gun, import marks are something I try to avoid. In a rare gun I tend to be more tolerant.

It also depends on the type of mark. Simpson's laser engraving is minor, the old under-the-barrel marks also not bad. The CAI billboard on the receiver is a kiss of death to me no matter the rifle.



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Gerst

Senior Member
That is not an easy question to answer... It depends.

If a common gun, import marks are something I try to avoid. In a rare gun I tend to be more tolerant.

It also depends on the type of mark. Simpson's laser engraving is minor, the old under-the-barrel marks also not bad. The CAI billboard on the receiver is a kiss of death to me no matter the rifle.



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These marks are on a Karab. 98b barrel
 

Gerst

Senior Member
Go find a Kar 98b barreled action, or complete gun without import marks...

If you cannot find one, their importance diminishes greatly.

I was lucky. A forum member sold one to me which had no such marks. Parts for a 98b are hard to find in any form. I’m still looking for a bolt!

How would one value a matching, marked barrel, receiver and rear sight?
 

BishopofBling

Senior Member
Generally speaking no import marks will up the value of a gun. I know I'd pay more for a non-import marked gun.

That rifle's import mark is not bad at all.
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Generally, when dealing with parts guns, the value is the sum of parts, such import marks are generally relevant but minor compared to other issues, = often they are the least relevant issue.

If the parts are valuable to your project, especially if they can not be acquired easily or there are several in a single group or purchase, I would consider overlooking such an insignificant issue, especially if you intend to part it out, as often loose barreled receivers are sold to sporter purposes and import marks play no role in value.
 

capt14k

#doomandgloom
Import marks don't bother me as much if done right. On pistols laser engraved at the magwell.to bare minimum requirements of 1/16" tall .003" deep. For rifles under the barrel hidden by the cleaning rod also to minimum requirements. Century Billboard I wouldn't buy on anything.

K98k import marks seem more important to not have than other rifles.

There was a dealer a few years back who claimed the ATF intentionally broke stocks on his rifles. He was admittedly removing import marks. Which while legal is unethical. I wonder how many rifles have had their import marked removed and the owner doesn't even know.

Just saw an auction recently for a Hungarian 91/30 aka 48.M that had the German Proof Marks, but with the date removed, and stated no import mark. Since they hadn't surplused them by 1968, and my guess is the proofmark was 1980s, if there really was no import mark it was because someone removed it or the seller missed it.

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Gerst

Senior Member
Generally, when dealing with parts guns, the value is the sum of parts, such import marks are generally relevant but minor compared to other issues, = often they are the least relevant issue.

If the parts are valuable to your project, especially if they can not be acquired easily or there are several in a single group or purchase, I would consider overlooking such an insignificant issue, especially if you intend to part it out, as often loose barreled receivers are sold to sporter purposes and import marks play no role in value.

Since the barreled receiver is a Simson 98b, I would never sell it as a sporter project.
 

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Gerst

Senior Member
Generally, when dealing with parts guns, the value is the sum of parts, such import marks are generally relevant but minor compared to other issues, = often they are the least relevant issue.

If the parts are valuable to your project, especially if they can not be acquired easily or there are several in a single group or purchase, I would consider overlooking such an insignificant issue, especially if you intend to part it out, as often loose barreled receivers are sold to sporter purposes and import marks play no role in value.

How hard would it be to find a stock for a Gew. 98m and what would it cost?

For that matter, how hard would it be to find a stock for a Simson Karab. 98b?

A third question, is a matching barrel, receiver and rear sight which is import-marked more valuable than an unmarked barrel and receiver with a non- matching rear sight?
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Like humans, not all 98b are equal in merit, I would think a 98b b/r is generally worth retaining if it's appearance is attractive (markings are distinct and original, metal finish reasonable and no significant distractions), but I have seen quite a few 98b's that I would (and did) part with.

But I like your sentiment!

Since the barreled receiver is a Simson 98b, I would never sell it as a sporter project.
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
How hard would it be to find a stock for a Gew. 98m and what would it cost?

For that matter, how hard would it be to find a stock for a Simson Karab. 98b?

A third question, is a matching barrel, receiver and rear sight which is import-marked more valuable than an unmarked barrel and receiver with a non- matching rear sight?

Now you know the answer to this question, - difficulty is in finding a suitable (to your purpose) stock, value or costs is incalculable, - one mans garbage is anothers treasure and you often can find nice stocks for reasonable prices (around $200) but the better the bargain the faster you must act. (and to act you must know what is right and or value- and Republican or early rearmament work can be complicated to evaluate, especially with uninformed/lazy internet sellers, - not enough or good pictures...)

Often the best method is buying a rifle for its components, some rifles sold complete but largely mismatched can be bought for a price that makes it "profitable" (in more ways than one) to break it up. You can never have too many loose stocks or bolts, though quality is the key word. Never buy garbage stocks or bolts...

I think import marks are relatively unimportant if they are discreet, out of the way and not distracting (like modern ones, which I think are designed in part to hamper their value and marketability); I would never, or rarely at least, attribute a discreet import mark to passing by a rifle. Finish (which is why rc's are garbage-shooters - m/m state just amplifies that classification... not to mention the only thing worse than a nazi is a communist, and the only thing worse than a communist is a mob of white teenagers with college degree's burning down cities and destroying statues of Jefferson and Washington...), appearance (lack of abuse), quality of the sum of parts, serviceability (bore or mechanical issues) and price all far outweigh the average import marking. I think this is generally true with most collectors when you are speaking of more elusive or desirable variations, - the more common the maker-date or variation the more scrutinizing or selective you should be (less tolerant of flaws and have more price sensitivity)
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Since the barreled receiver is a Simson 98b, I would never sell it as a sporter project.

Thanks for the pictures, the import marking would be a negligible issue for me, the barrel is original, the appearance is pleasing, markings clear and unaltered, not nazi graffiti seen, most of all d-block is one of the lowest blocks recorded, only 19 rifles and most have serious issues. Pretty tough year to find, especially original, which yours is only a b/r, at least it can be restored profitably.

Anyway, I would also keep it unless a better alternative came along, - if seeking a a-d block that is pretty unlikely, especially for a reasonable price, while e-f blocks and 1925 are numerous (relatively) condition is still a rarity. Any 98b in factory condition. or near it, is pretty rare and almost always expensive (and hesitation of any sort often loses any chance at it... there are no shortage of buyers of quality in the 98b field... especially the tough blocks or unit marked)
 

runner

Senior Member
" one mans garbage is another treasure" You got that right. That rifle has been around the forums and the auctions for awhile now. The bolt is a total mismatch, and not desirable to most, but I "need it" for a restoration I am working on. Just can not bring myself to spring for the asking price on this one, just to get the bolt.
 

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