Third Party Press

M/Anchor question

RyanE

Baby Face
Staff member
I assume most here have seen the M/Anchor depot build on the other board. Does anyone have a grip on the timeline of the M/Anchor markings? Are these post-WW1 or was this used pre-1919? I know the MA marking comes later (I think), but not sure what the cutoff is though.
 

chrisftk

Senior Member
I'm assuming this was the one at RIA and later sold by Eisel on GB?

I didn't recognize the anchor as something German. I don't know of any historic usage of an anchor on their small arms. I thought this was a foreign rework.(suspicion was polish in my eye as the polish word for navy also begins with M)

Just speculation though. I intentionally held off as I am reasonably well versed in inter war and didn't recognize it.

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RyanE

Baby Face
Staff member
I'm assuming this was the one at RIA and later sold by Eisel on GB?

I didn't recognize the anchor as something German. I don't know of any historic usage of an anchor on their small arms. I thought this was a foreign rework.(suspicion was polish in my eye as the polish word for navy also begins with M)

Just speculation though. I intentionally held off as I am reasonably well versed in inter war and didn't recognize it.

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I don't think so, this a ruined Spanish import from the other board. Here is a pic of it. Receiver has only one proof on the RR and no FP (M/Anchor used instead), so definitely a spare receiver. Tried to get better pics from the poster, but not much luck so far.
 

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chrisftk

Senior Member
I don't think so, this a ruined Spanish import from the other board. Here is a pic of it. Receiver has only one proof on the RR and no FP (M/Anchor used instead), so definitely a spare receiver. Tried to get better pics from the poster, but not much luck so far.
Interesting, that's the same mark from the 98a. I'm still not very familiar with it, but I'd be curious to hear what Paul or others say.

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flynaked

Senior Member
Ryan, here’s another, not my rifle, but I had pictures saved in my email from trying to buy it. It was a total m/m but still more original than a Spanish import. Same thing, spare receiver, fresh postwar build of some flavor. A good datapoint is the 1929 JP Sauer sight ramp. It looks like possibly a scrubbed imperial FP on the barrel, but I can’t quite tell.
 

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RyanE

Baby Face
Staff member
Ryan, here’s another, not my rifle, but I had pictures saved in my email from trying to buy it. It was a total m/m but still more original than a Spanish import. Same thing, spare receiver, fresh postwar build of some flavor. A good datapoint is the 1929 JP Sauer sight ramp. It looks like possibly a scrubbed imperial FP on the barrel, but I can’t quite tell.

Awesome. Thanks for posting this one. Looks like it might be a scrubbed Amberg FP on that barrel, maybe?

Sight base on 696 is unfortunately not matched (E/81 numbered 73). I don't see any markings on the tube either.
 

flynaked

Senior Member
Yeah I think you’re right, now that I look at it again I think I’m seeing what you are. This one has an e6 sight base, unfortunately it is just the BR that was original to it, so nothing else to study. It had a conglomeration of 98m parts on it, a typical m/m rifle that looked like an Albanian import.

We were discussing the punch marks near the serial earlier, this is similar or identical to Weimar era rework practices, although I can only recall seeing these marks on bolt components IIRC. That makes at least three rifles with this marking that have popped up now, I wonder if anyone has seen another, perhaps one with an original stock!?
 

chrisftk

Senior Member
Not quite the same, but a Navy rework. Note the 1929 sight and the same acceptance pattern on the barrel.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?t=26816

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I remember this one now.

Well, there you have it on the anchor. For some reason I had it in my head it was a droop wing e/M on this example.

I'm assuming this would be the earliest incarnation of the interwar naval stamp probably a transitional marking, as the imperial crown wouldn't have been a very popular symbol in the wake of the mutinies . I'm sure Paul could speak more intelligently on this.
 

Amberg

Senior Member
...... Does anyone have a grip on the timeline of the M/Anchor markings? Are these post-WW1 or was this used pre-1919?

It might be helpful to search the Luger Forum to narrow down the timeline of the M/anchor markings.

1928 dated holster with M/anchor and e/M stamp:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=37695

another 1928 dated holster with M/anchor stamp:
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=36760

DWM 1929 with the later style M/anchor stamp
http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=34454
 
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Gunrunner

Senior Member

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Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
From the limited numbers known, 9 with pictures, 10 with this one, most are interwar builds like this one, but almost all carry the property mark (1920), which suggests this is before 1931 in most cases as by then German had dispensed with such deception, (by 1932 Germany had begun rearmament, Hitler did not start it, he just accelerated something underway... further while Germany was increasingly more stringent in industrial rearmament secrecy, the RM was probably far less prone to deception, many radicals had power there, - they were contemptuous of such niceties or dealing with the USSR, unlike the more pragmatic RH, who rightly saw a better future in closer ties to the USSR...)

I suspect from the parts mix, the crudity of the work (RM are almost always sloppy and rely on salvage and expediency, - they didn't waste money on small arms, their budget wasn't small, they just spent it on development, often in foreign countries, or on the few ships they could build, - which under incredible pressure in 1931, from France, England and the US (Hoover), refused to stop the pocket battleship programs, though much of this was probably over fear of more unemployment such cancellations would have caused...), early rear sight sleeves (e/29, e/14, e/6 waffenamts), plus the North sea unit markings (N.### no suffix or "k") many carry and placement, these are probably late 1920's to pre-1935 era. None, so far as I can tell have post 1933 sights (WMO sleeves, S/42K, G, or waffenamts - some G98's have rearmament era upper RS parts, but the rear sight sleeves were not replaced, which typically means it was in use prior to 1933, plus the property marks (1920) are not typically seen once Hitler came to power (not elected- Hitler was never elected to any office prior to 1933)

** None are pre-1919, I suspect the earliest possible are 1925-1929, at least one retains original WWI barrel, but M/anchor served as a proof next to the barrel serial, generally a 1926 introduction (going by Simson), RM was very irregular in their practices, far less formal than the RH. A couple 98a are known too, which is kind of odd, but the RM is full of oddities..

I assume most here have seen the M/Anchor depot build on the other board. Does anyone have a grip on the timeline of the M/Anchor markings? Are these post-WW1 or was this used pre-1919? I know the MA marking comes later (I think), but not sure what the cutoff is though.
 

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