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Need serious stock advice

S/42

Thunda from down unda
The white glue stock on my Kreigsmodell HT sniper arrived (along with a 47K byf 44 stock I was going to use for shooting it). I knew the stock had issues, but... my heart sank...

OK, I counted 7 seperate lamination seperations running from the butt blate to the action triggerguard cutout (and then a single crack behind the recoil lug). SEVEN! 3 are full delaminations - TOP TO BOTTOM! A SERIOUS delamination around the sling cutout on the right side back to the buttplate.

Well, I can forget shooting this stock, but seeing it MATCHES the rifle (as the KM snipers still had serialled stocks), I am going to try to remedy this one as best I can.

I was thinking, and PLEASE chime in with any suggestions - to run ultra thin superglue (industrial strength) into all the seperations. Top it with some industrial PVA OR formaldehyde white resin. TRY to rescue it.

The stock was never sanded, just poly-glooped... so, it needs salvaging.

IDEAS, please

If ANYONE has a spare KM stock end cap, PLEASE let me know! Repro even!

EDIT: update: those 7 cracks run nearly FULL LENGTH - all the way from butt to rear band!! :(
 
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Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Vulch, I'd try the original resin formula, sparingly, and clamp it. I'd go real slow and think about every step, you know, measure many times, cut once type of mentality. I would even think this through over a period of time. Before you do anything, wait and think about what you are doing for a day or so. As Tony Soprano says, you can't shovel the sh!t back in the donkey. Good luck.
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
BTW, the stock end cap is missing as I mentioned, but the screw is there - ANY possibility they made it and simply somehow forgot the cap???? (wishful thinking)

I agree Ham - it's going to be a long drawn out restoration for sure. Unfortunately, it WILL require SOME sanding and a refinish, but we will see how that goes :( I am confident I can salvage it to some degree.

Stay tuned - I'll do some photos of this one before, during and after.
 

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
I have a byf44 Kriegsmodell that is missing the cap and never had one, but I think if yours has a screw it should have a plate. Wish I had an extra for you!

Just glue that stock, you can do it!
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Vulch, you may not need to sand anything. It's a matter of going slow and making sure the resin/adhesive you use does not ooze out onto the stock. This is where it requires thought. You may have to use thread, a toothpick, needle, whatever, to work it down into the delamination space on one part and do a test compression squeezing it together to see how much you can put in without any coming out to the surface.
 

THunter

Well-known member
You could use a release agent such as wax on the wood where you don't want the glue adhering to.
 

Aeisir

Moderator
Relamination

You might consider resorcinol glue which is used for lamination in industry. The open time is about 30 minutes at 70°F which if well-planned is plenty of time. I would also beg a few syringes from your medical buddies (if legal) and couple dozen 1"x12" rubber bands for ganging into a chain. The working time of resorcinol is about 4 hours at 70°F and it might be good to practice a few times to ensure good injections and getting quantity right to avoid runouts (messy and fiddly). I usually practice wrapping the repair prior to mixing glue to be sure the set up is okay. Last block thru the steps and then go live.

Below pic of small repair. The power of the rubberband wrap shouldn't be underestimated.
22253RepairStory_Page_12_Image_0001.jpg
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
I am using a formaldehyde glue reinforced with melamime: http://www.selleys.com.au/adhesives/household-adhesive/wood-adhesive/high-stress-wood-glue

It dries to be light fawn/off white just like the original white resin glue, so should be perfect.

No need to use needles etc - I can open the darned laminations like a chinese fan! It is THAT delaminated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is also a torsional sideways crack at the wrist (nothing too major YET) which shouldn't be an issue.

I took some before shots already, so I will upload those. This will be a running work in progress for all to see and learn by. IF this rifle wasn't 100% matching, I wouldn't be so worried, and just use the GORGEOUS spare e/135 late stock I have.

I already have surgical rubber, clamps, quick clamps etc. I prepared for this months ago prior to export, but surely did not expect it to be THIS "shredded" :facepalm:
 

Wolfsburg

Senior Member
I would love to see pics of this. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a stock as badly delaminated as what is described.
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
Well, I think there is only one word to describe the stock... and that's not a polite word :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

I will try my best, but....

I have glued the major delamination with resin as best I can, but the wood is warped :facepalm:

I have flowed super thin cyanoacrylate glue into all the small cracks and seperations.

I am going to HAVE to sand it :facepalm: There is wood missing, pieces gone, major warp seperations, and a BIG chunk out of the wood under the buttplate. I feel this stock was either dropped from a considerable height, or it was smashed against something. After removing the varnish, it's a pity to say it HAS been sanded, albeit lightly, and someone DID try to repair it, badly (probably made it worse!). In the end, I think I am going to HAVE to stain it (there are traces of stain - seems the light sanding removed it) a dark brown to try to hide SOME of the flaws.

I knew I disliked white glue for a reason.

So, as much as it pains me to tell it, I have already removed the original checkered buttplate and put it on the late-44 stock I have. NOT kreigsmodell - "original" style with bayonet lug etc. It is a GORGEOUS stock.

I won't give up, but I am having serious doubts. I will ALWAYS keep the stock with it, but...

Truly saddening. A 100% matching rifle...
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
Some pictures.

This is the stock as received, with a prior attempt by someone to glue the stock (POOR job)
 

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S/42

Thunda from down unda
This is the stock after removing the varnish with acetone, which also dissolved the glue (Gorilla Glue?) used by a prior owner to TRY to repair it. Of course, the wood sprang out the second the glue was dissolved. Kinda wished I'd run some super-glue in BEFORE doing this, but too late now

This shot is of the original stock (left, obviously), next to the mid/late-44 byf stock I plan on putting it into most of the time (conserving the original). That stock is GORGEOUS, and I have a matching colour and patina handguard too. Just need some unnumbered stamped bands to go with it, or use the original bands (though will look odd with the KM screw holes :biggrin1: )

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S/42

Thunda from down unda
Just finished 4 hours of clamping, glueing to hold with super-glue, then running in formaldehyde resin.

Fingers crossed. It looks OK actually, though never going to look beautiful - but what Km does? :biggrin1:
 

jlj

Well-known member
Hope it turns out, hard to beat putting it back in the original stock. JL
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
Well, the glue has set, I have trimmed and removed most of the excess, and it's half-way decent. The major top of the butt crack simply refused to close fully with clamps, so it has excessive glue in there. A touch "obvious" but no other option.

Maybe I can pass it off as a manufacturing flaw - ran out of wood in the 5th lamination, so glue seeped up and they just sanded it to profile :laugh: Wouldn't suprise anyone with a Kriegsmodell :moon:
 

Winchester Cowboy

Senior Member
. I feel this stock was either dropped from a considerable height, or it was smashed against something.

The Original Stock is still very nice even with the minor damage, and if it's part of the history of the rifle, it makes it all the more interesting.

Who knows, what if the Sniper fell off a house or tree?
Probably will never know, but something happened to it at one time.

It's just Cosmetic, but it's Original.

Nothing wrong with Battle Damage, maybe it tells the story.
 
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Aeisir

Moderator
Vulch's repair

Quote Originally Posted by Vulch View Post
"The major top of the butt crack simply refused to close fully with clamps"


Just curious, is this because of the previous glue repair preventing the closing? The crack nastiness can be cosmetically mitigated with slivers of veneer, but this stock looks much better than the image I initially conjured up. I have seen much worse. Also curious, did you use a curved caul to press down the wrist lift?
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
Quote Originally Posted by Vulch View Post
"The major top of the butt crack simply refused to close fully with clamps"


Just curious, is this because of the previous glue repair preventing the closing? The crack nastiness can be cosmetically mitigated with slivers of veneer, but this stock looks much better than the image I initially conjured up. I have seen much worse. Also curious, did you use a curved caul to press down the wrist lift?

I managed to slip a scalpel stitch cutter right through the stock - top to bottom - between a couple laminations to try to clean them out, but I could only partially clean the big split. The wood was going to crack further if I applied too much force to close the gap fully, so I did my best. It is WORSE than it looks in photos, but, i am getting happier.
 

S/42

Thunda from down unda
Ok, stocks been setting/sitting a few days now, and every time I pick it up, a new set of cracks appears. Getting frustrating!

Almost seems like the stock was "used" to its cracked and slightly bowed condition of the laminate layer, and when the cracks were fixed, it's now stressed again, and pop...

GRRRR

Damned late war "quality". I blame Mike for it :)
 

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