Third Party Press

Preserving Metal

BishopofBling

Senior Member
I've noticed when looking at K98 bayonets it's really common to see scabbards pitted to hell. It got me thinking how on earth it could've gotten to that point. I guess they just never left a coat of oil on it and just stuffed it in a drawer?

What do you guys use to preserve metal? Especially on parts that you can't wipe down with oil like the metal underneath the wood.

I stumbled upon this stuff called "Renaissance Wax", seems like museum curators use them. Anyone on here ever use the stuff?

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/2...705f3b5eb26fb9d12&utm_content=renaissance wax
 

sprat

Senior Member
once they are pitted that's it it is what it is. A fine coating of oil should stop further deterioration. there is no way to enhance the metal this side of removing the grips thereis no way to preserve the metal under the wood

forget STEEL WOOL
 

R.W. Parker

Well-known member
I've noticed when looking at K98 bayonets it's really common to see scabbards pitted to hell. It got me thinking how on earth it could've gotten to that point. I guess they just never left a coat of oil on it and just stuffed it in a drawer?

What do you guys use to preserve metal? Especially on parts that you can't wipe down with oil like the metal underneath the wood.

I stumbled upon this stuff called "Renaissance Wax", seems like museum curators use them. Anyone on here ever use the stuff?

https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/2...705f3b5eb26fb9d12&utm_content=renaissance wax

Wherever wood is in close contact with metal for extended periods, corrosion is almost certain to occur. This is especially true in humid climates. When the wood can be removed and the metal treated, Ballistol is probably the best because it won't harm the wood. It can even be applied along the wood-to-metal junction on bayonet grips, because it will "creep" to some extent. On exposed metal that'll be stored for extended periods, RIG (Rust Inhibiting Grease) works pretty well.

Richie
 
Wherever wood is in close contact with metal for extended periods, corrosion is almost certain to occur. This is especially true in humid climates. When the wood can be removed and the metal treated, Ballistol is probably the best because it won't harm the wood. It can even be applied along the wood-to-metal junction on bayonet grips, because it will "creep" to some extent. On exposed metal that'll be stored for extended periods, RIG (Rust Inhibiting Grease) works pretty well.

Richie

Totally agree with the Ballistol / RIG recommendation, including the particular uses.

If it’s going into longer term storage, then a nice coat of RIG is ideal.

Ballistol is good for shorter stints.
 

BishopofBling

Senior Member
I typically use ballistol on metal parts, but would you consider that Renaissance Wax RIG? I would think it'd be good for long term storage to keep rust at bay though I assume you'd need to degrease the metal first. Is there a way to degrease it without damaging bluing? For now

I've also done this with metals on a couple of Carcanos that I got that were in rough shape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdmVCGhCoOA

You can boil metal parts in water and you can remove rust with really fine 0000 steel wool.
 
I typically use ballistol on metal parts, but would you consider that Renaissance Wax RIG? I would think it'd be good for long term storage to keep rust at bay though I assume you'd need to degrease the metal first. Is there a way to degrease it without damaging bluing? For now

I've also done this with metals on a couple of Carcanos that I got that were in rough shape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdmVCGhCoOA

You can boil metal parts in water and you can remove rust with really fine 0000 steel wool.

RIG and Renaissance Wax are two completely different products, with wholly separate formulations. Simply put, RIG is grease, and Renaissance Wax is, well, wax. I don’t have any experience with Ren Wax, so can’t comment on it. I personally don’t like the idea of applying wax to guns, but many folks really like it, so maybe give it a shot.

I have used RIG and Ballistol, and like them both.

As Sprat states above, I would discourage the use of steel wool, no matter how fine it is. It’s tempting, and if you have active rust on an already rough piece, MAYBE. But using it is like baking garlic bread. Things seem to be going slow, then you have charcoal. Yellow, yellow, yellow, brown-black... Dag...
 

R.W. Parker

Well-known member
would you consider that Renaissance Wax RIG? I would think it'd be good for long term storage to keep rust at bay though I assume you'd need to degrease the metal first. Is there a way to degrease it without damaging bluing? For now

I've also done this with metals on a couple of Carcanos that I got that were in rough shape:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdmVCGhCoOA

You can boil metal parts in water and you can remove rust with really fine 0000 steel wool.

RIG is RIG. That's the trade name, it's Rust Inhibiting Grease.

I don't know what "Renaissance Wax" is, probably because my horizons haven't been sufficiently broadened. I'm primarily a Hoppe's #9 and Ballistol guy.

Boiling in water is a good way to neutralize oxidation, provided the rust has been removed first. When rust appears as blisters on a blued surface, it's best removed by softening with a light oil (like kerosene), then breaking the blisters by rubbing over them with a smooth, hard piece of tool steel. A discarded gage pin (plug gage) works well for this. As long as the tool steel is ultra smooth, hard and without sharp edges, you'll never mar the surrounding blued surface. This method is much kinder than steel wool or wire wheels, as only the rust is removed.

As a preservative, I'd be leery of wax unless I knew it contained a refined petroleum-based oil. But that's just me.

Richie
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
If you lightly wipe with Ballistol and maintain the environment at about 50% humidity the firearm will out last you and many following generations of your family.
 

BishopofBling

Senior Member
RIG is RIG. That's the trade name, it's Rust Inhibiting Grease.

I don't know what "Renaissance Wax" is, probably because my horizons haven't been sufficiently broadened. I'm primarily a Hoppe's #9 and Ballistol guy.

Boiling in water is a good way to neutralize oxidation, provided the rust has been removed first. When rust appears as blisters on a blued surface, it's best removed by softening with a light oil (like kerosene), then breaking the blisters by rubbing over them with a smooth, hard piece of tool steel. A discarded gage pin (plug gage) works well for this. As long as the tool steel is ultra smooth, hard and without sharp edges, you'll never mar the surrounding blued surface. This method is much kinder than steel wool or wire wheels, as only the rust is removed.

As a preservative, I'd be leery of wax unless I knew it contained a refined petroleum-based oil. But that's just me.

Richie

That kerosene method seems interesting, this is Renaissance Wax: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_Wax

Apparently a lot of museums use it but, I have no personal experience either so I can't confirm how effective it is.

I guess I'm mainly concerned about this stuff as I was watching a Mark Novak video on Youtube and he was saying what many collectors consider patina is really rust and if you're going to preserve these firearms for future generations then you should remove that rust as rust will continue to destroy metal. That's where I thought that if you have a spot in a rifle that you can't continuously wipe with oil (say metal underneath the wood) then it might be a good idea to get it down to bare metal then remove the rust then apply some sort of protective wax like Renaissance Wax or something similar. Kind of how like cosmoline was used, which you can still buy apparently:

https://www.cosmolinedirect.com/
 

BishopofBling

Senior Member
If you lightly wipe with Ballistol and maintain the environment at about 50% humidity the firearm will out last you and many following generations of your family.

That's what I've been sticking too so far was curious though if these waxes have an validity in the collecting community in preserving these firearms.
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
That's what I've been sticking too so far was curious though if these waxes have an validity in the collecting community in preserving these firearms.

Rust requires oxygen. Wax creates a barrier to oxidation. That's why tanks and planes and firearms and such out in Russia that are buried in clay bogs for 75 years are in such nice condition. Moisture is bad, which is why constant temperature and humidity stop oxidation and rust. With proper climate control and dehumidification you wouldn't need any oil at all I don't believe.
 

heavy_mech

RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
..With proper climate control and dehumidification you wouldn't need any oil at all I don't believe.

100% agree, There's a reason the Army spends a small fortune on temperature and humidity controls on Arms Rooms or Vaults, even retrofitting old ones. Definitely makes a huge difference. We've all see 'basement finds' and what they look like.
 

R.W. Parker

Well-known member
Rust requires oxygen. Wax creates a barrier to oxidation. That's why tanks and planes and firearms and such out in Russia that are buried in clay bogs for 75 years are in such nice condition.

Ever see "B-29 Frozen in Time: The Flight of the Kee Bird"?

Illustrates this perfectly. Great documentary, terrible ending.
 

grimlin13

Senior Member
I see a lot of talk about using steel wool. Do not use any grade of steel wool (000.extra-fine included) on blued metal unless you intend to remove the blue. Brass/bronze wool is what you use. It comes in different grades like the steel wool, I use the extra-fine on my bayonets, if needed for light to moderate rust. Bad rust or corrosion gets more attention. Personally I think patina should be left alone. It looks better than bare shiny 80 year old metal with a coat of oil put on it.
I have used Ren Wax but not really long enough to see the long term protection. I use it mainly on my KS98 (dress) bayonets that are chrome plated, seems ok. The nickle plated ones, no, it clouds the plating. Glad I only put it on one. As far as leather, still out on it. It does darken the leather a little, so never put it on a brown frog. I have an old WWI dress frog that has red rot,no cure or stopping that. I put Ren Wax on it to see how it would do. I think the rot has slowed or maybe the wax is holding it together. I use a light gun oil on my S84/98 bayonets with a soft white cloth (old T-shirt), always making sure to use a clean spot on the cloth. Any rust removed will adhere to the cloth and will scratch blueing. I did put Ren Wax on the wooden grips on one of my S84/98 bayonets. Looks good and does seal it. I think it would block some moisture from getting under places I can`t get to. I live in a wet in winter, dry ass summer climate. Moisture control is very important and I check all my metal on a regular schedule.
Mineral oil can be used on blued metal to clean it. I have not had it harm any original blue on my bayonets and it will not mess up the painted scabbards on my KS98 s . I would test the finish first in a small unseen area.
 

Hambone

Community Organizer
Staff member
Light wipe of ballistol. Properly HVAC’d storage space, no insects or UV light, wipe off moisture and fingerprints. Humidity controlled with a dehumidifier at 50%. Your collectibles will outlast you several times over with no changes. Theoretically they may last forever like this.
 

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