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RESEARCH PROJECT- Gl. V. Marked Rifles and M1916 Glasvisier Study

mauser1908

Senior Member
I have been trending examples of Gl. V. marked rifles for the last year, I wanted to bring this one to the forum in an attempt to establish a pattern as to why these rifles were marked in such a way. Per Storz, all rifles by 1918 should have a Gl.V. marked rear sight. Meaning they are of appropriate tolerance to accommodate an M1916 Glasvisier. That is assuming these were adopted in a manner similar to the other Gew 98 updates, manufacturer dependent.

In reality this has proven to be much different with only Amberg and Danzig bearing the marking with any degree of certainty, meaning a valid rifle with a verified matching rear sight. I theorize that these rifles were not meant to bear the mark universally but were selected for a particular quality and then marked. The goal of this study is ultimately to determine what those qualities are. Three aspects have led me to this line of thinking.

1. I don't believe manufacturing time or expense would have been wasted fitting every rifle with with rear sights of stricter tolerance, especially given there were probably less than 5,000 optics produced.

2. I don't believe a glasvisier (a truly revolutionary optic for the time) would be allocated to a random rifle of only average performance.

3. I have trended one 'conventional' Gew 98 sniper and observed a few others (before I committed to studying this) with Gl.V. marked rear sights.

I would be grateful for any information provided if you own one of these rifles. I would be most interested to see any other marked rifles from manufacturers besides Danzig and Amberg.

For those who are unfamiliar with the marking, they can be found on rifles produced 1916-1918, with 1917 and 18 bearing most of them. The areas of interest for photos are: manufacturer information and serial number, barrel code, head on photos of the Gl.V. marking itself, photos of part acceptance stamps on the rear sight, and the rear sight serial number. In addition, if anyone owns one of these illusive optics, the serial number would be of interest to narrow down a more exact production total.

Current Trended Examples:

Danzig:

1917 Danzig 2291 p- BI
1917 Danzig 8753 r
1917 Danzig 6259 s- Kr 66
1917 Danzig 6555 w- BI 567
1917 Danzig 4455 x
1917 Danzig 8252 y
1917 Danzig 1130 cc- Centered Double Claw Sniper, BI 744
1917 Danzig 4883 cc- Goerz Semi Turret Sniper
1917 Danzig 5669 cc- Rear Off Set Double Claw Sniper
1917 Danzig 4606 hh- Double Claw Sniper
1917 Danzig 9885 hh- Full Off Set Sniper, Kr 80
1917 Danzig 749 ii- Rear Off Set Double Claw Sniper
1917 Danzig 3239 ii- Rear Off Set Double Claw Sniper, Kr 296A
1917 Danzig 6631 ii- Rear Off Set Double Claw Sniper
1918 Danzig 4928 a- Kr 52
1918 Danzig 7956 a- Semi-Turret Sniper Rifle
1918 Danzig 724 c- Some form of Sniper


Amberg:

1917 Amberg 8400 v
1917 Amberg 3475 x
1917 Amberg 4879 x
1918 Amberg 139
1918 Amberg 6507- OS 4557
1918 Amberg 2239 b
1918 Amberg 7457 d
1918 Amberg 6702 f
1918 Amberg 6460 g- G 23

Glasvisiers:

725- 'K' Marked
829- 'K' Marked
1541- 'K' Marked
2537
3094
3259
3278
3306
3544
3858
3868
3894
4157
4394
4870
5515
5709
6000
6035


VI3lEpxl.jpgIMG_1177.jpg
 
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Zeiss Glasvisier serial# 2537
Leitz Glasvisier (prototype) no serial

As well as Warrior1354, I have to dig out my rifles with Gl.V. rear sight.
(Only Amberg and Danzig rifles)
 

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A worthy project Sam, yesterday I stuck the thread to promote its progress.

Here is a rifle that came to mind immediately, a restored bond drive (steel plugs in muzzle & breech removed) that was built by CGH in 1915, but subsequently reworked by an ordnance staff, possibly/probably Hannover (or whoever the H-receivers represent, which is still in question**). This subject i have written about before, but the extra acceptance on the RR is a sign of an higher ordnance staff, probably associated with one of the arsenals, but probably not an actual arsenal (they did reworking, we know this because of acceptance, but these with the C/D on the far right RR is probably Hannover due to similarities with known H-receiver production). I think Hannover was working under the supervision or authority of Spandau due to similarities in production methods and the later reliance or take over of Spandau/S&H receivers.

Anyway, this rifle was re-barreled, probably by Hannover in 1917 or 1918, the RS is Gl.V, though not serialed to the rifle (unseriealed), most of the components including stock matched the rifle (bands, TG included), and as a bond rifle it has a pretty good pedigree of originality.

I will take some time to dig through files to further this project.


** I am not convinced H=Hannover, MarkW suggested the possibility and its as good as any other obvious possibility, but although Hannover was an AK HQ in the Imperial era, little else seems to suggest Hannover other than it is part of Prussia and a Prussian facility would have chosen to work with Spandau. Unlike many of the other known collection centers or repair facilities, Hannover was not an artillery depot or munitions depot, other than its role as a AK HQ, its only other task was the riding school (cavalry), hardly an ideal setting to repair and later take over Spandau's rifle production responsibilities... thing is none of the larger artillery depots I saw listed start with an "H" and although it is only a partial list of the 39 that existed, it makes one wonder what this "H" represented??
 

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Paul, thank you I appreciate it! Thanks for the great info. Part acceptance on the sight seems to match examples found on Danzig rifles. Interesting that Gl.V. marking itself seems to match the font style found on Amberg sights. Very interesting, can’t wait to compare this on in further detail. By chance what is the barrel code? I can’t make it out. Thanks.

A worthy project Sam, yesterday I stuck the thread to promote its progress.

Here is a rifle that came to mind immediately, a restored bond drive (steel plugs in muzzle & breech removed) that was built by CGH in 1915, but subsequently reworked by an ordnance staff, possibly/probably Hannover (or whoever the H-receivers represent, which is still in question**). This subject i have written about before, but the extra acceptance on the RR is a sign of an higher ordnance staff, probably associated with one of the arsenals, but probably not an actual arsenal (they did reworking, we know this because of acceptance, but these with the C/D on the far right RR is probably Hannover due to similarities with known H-receiver production). I think Hannover was working under the supervision or authority of Spandau due to similarities in production methods and the later reliance or take over of Spandau/S&H receivers.

Anyway, this rifle was re-barreled, probably by Hannover in 1917 or 1918, the RS is Gl.V, though not serialed to the rifle (unseriealed), most of the components including stock matched the rifle (bands, TG included), and as a bond rifle it has a pretty good pedigree of originality.

I will take some time to dig through files to further this project.


** I am not convinced H=Hannover, MarkW suggested the possibility and its as good as any other obvious possibility, but although Hannover was an AK HQ in the Imperial era, little else seems to suggest Hannover other than it is part of Prussia and a Prussian facility would have chosen to work with Spandau. Unlike many of the other known collection centers or repair facilities, Hannover was not an artillery depot or munitions depot, other than its role as a AK HQ, its only other task was the riding school (cavalry), hardly an ideal setting to repair and later take over Spandau's rifle production responsibilities... thing is none of the larger artillery depots I saw listed start with an "H" and although it is only a partial list of the 39 that existed, it makes one wonder what this "H" represented??
 
Thank you! 6000 is a new high number from the ones I have recorded. What is the number on the half?

Sam, since you anyway have listed my rifle serials already listed ... I own Glasvisier serials #3259, #3544, #6000 plus one missing half of it. If you want the serial of this incomplete too, please let me know.

Rock Island Auction just sold a Spandau 1916 Gew98 with Zeiss Glasvisier serial #4807, see https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/75/3546/spandau-gew98 .
 
Sam, "half" scope is #5515. I am now not sure if the serial is really #6000 since I recorded this number from my memory. A pictures however confirmed the first three digits for sure are 600, so I'm sure I got it correct at #6000. See the attached picture, comparing the Zeiss Glasvisier with three sets of British WWI Magnifying Glasses.

Wolfgang, would you mind checking your Glasvisier looking into it from the front if there a trapezoid shaped lense visible at the bottom? I've recently been told that some of those scopes should had ended up post WWI in Finland and had been modified there with a new lense and had wondered if this could be the case since in some scopes I have seen such a lense, in others not.
 

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Wolfgang, would you mind checking your Glasvisier looking into it from the front if there a trapezoid shaped lense visible at the bottom?

My Zeiss Glasvisier has the split lens (trapezoid shaped lens).
Attached also a view of the Leitz Glasvisier reticle.
 

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The BC is typical of Hannover jobs, basically ordnance spares, offhand I can't remember if I attributed it to a steel provider. I will add more pictures of the BC tomorrow, have limited time today.

Paul, thank you I appreciate it! Thanks for the great info. Part acceptance on the sight seems to match examples found on Danzig rifles. Interesting that Gl.V. marking itself seems to match the font style found on Amberg sights. Very interesting, can’t wait to compare this on in further detail. By chance what is the barrel code? I can’t make it out. Thanks.
 

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Sam, "half" scope is #5515. I am now not sure if the serial is really #6000 since I recorded this number from my memory. A pictures however confirmed the first three digits for sure are 600, so I'm sure I got it correct at #6000. See the attached picture, comparing the Zeiss Glasvisier with three sets of British WWI Magnifying Glasses.

Wolfgang, would you mind checking your Glasvisier looking into it from the front if there a trapezoid shaped lense visible at the bottom? I've recently been told that some of those scopes should had ended up post WWI in Finland and had been modified there with a new lense and had wondered if this could be the case since in some scopes I have seen such a lense, in others not.

Thank you, any markings on the case by chance? Like manufacturer or ink unit markings?
 
Neither of my cases have any markings on them.

Wolfgang, do you know if this lense is to be found in ALL Glasvisier/if it has a certain designation, or if could had been added like by the Finnish post WWI?
 
Wolfgang, do you know if this lense is to be found in ALL Glasvisier/if it has a certain designation, or if could had been added like by the Finnish post WWI?

All the German WWI issued Zeiss Galsvisiere I know had that kind of lens system.
I know nothing about the Finnish version.
Sorry!
 
I did not have time to dig out my rifles, but found some old shots.
To take more and better shots will take some time.

Amberg 1918, # 6404 g, all matching
 

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Amberg 1917, # 4879 x, bolt m/m
 

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IIRR "LOEWE" identified this one as a Danzig 1917, # 1130 cc,
Bases for Emil Busch, Visar 2 3/4x scope
 

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