Third Party Press

Sauer high turret scope Kahles Wien H4x60 41490



I share with you pictures of an untouched High Turret Kahles for Sauer k98k.
It comes from Nancy, East of France, serial numer 41490. Same rifle serial number on foots.

Here are pictures,




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I've been looking for one for 10 years
the photos are more beautiful than on Whatsapp
Congratulations for this great purchase
This confirms that we find HT khalès from number 41000. I know one 410xx

pwcosol, yours is coded 'cad' on your byf44? did you submit it on the forum?
Same glass as on my matching, 38k range byf44 high-turret...
... wanted to say basically the same. Kahles H/4x60 marked scopes are to be found on Sauer rifles only, the Kahles scopes for Mauser are all cad marked. I assume you refer to a cad coded scope, do you?

Nice scope! Thank you for sharing it! Not fully sure on the rifle serial. Can you confirm it reads as 8121?
Hi Absolut, thanks. Yes it is 8121, you have good eyes!


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pwcosol, yours is coded 'cad' on your byf44? did you submit it on the forum?
JD: Thought I might have done so some years back. Will have to dig the HT out today or tomorrow. Back in the mid-'80s, purchased my first K98k SSG from a friend. It was another "byf44" HT which was matched other than the scope. Then about a year later had the opportunity to upgrade the rifle to a 99%, completely matching "byf44" HT (even had the WaA lens caps but no can). At the time I was reluctant to spend another $500. additional compared to the $2,500. I had paid for the other rifle, just for a matching serial number! My friend w/the rifle said he often had HTs & LSRs pass thru his hands (yes... those were the days.) and had no real problem selling a clean HT like I had with miss-matched glass, but sometimes it took a bit of time. However, he said a crisp, 100% matched K98k HT usually sold with nothing more than a phone call and the $500. difference would be money well spent down the road. So, I pulled the pin, shelled out the $3K and a short time later found a new home for the previous SSG for what I paid for it.

Just found my data card and rifle is 38456k. Scope is actually marked "WIEN" & "H/4X60" with shade extension (so deleted my earlier post), but guess my data card is wrong and the "KAHLES" stamp is under the rear ring. Serial number on it is 41685. Interestingly, another good friend had virtually the same rifle, but a couple thousand numbers removed from mine. It was in the same condition and had same scope. In fact, if one put them side-by-side, it would be hard to readily tell them apart.


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Maybe when you find time please put the rifle under natural daylight and retake the pictures and do an own thread for it. I would appreciate this a lot.

As I had mentioned are Kahles H/4x60 marked scopes only to be found with J. P. Sauer & Sohn rifles. Therefore it is really weird to see it on a Mauser made rifle, since the Kahles scopes for Mauser usually were cad marked only. It might though had been a recycled scope, hence it would be really interesting to take a detailed look at your rifle in its own thread.
Taking good photos is always a challenge. I have to do it in the garage and there are only certain times of the day when the natural light is optimum, but will give it a shot next week. As for the optic on the rifle, it has the sun shade extension with two drain holes. The rifle my friend owned, in the same letter-bloc, had the identical optic and features. Will call him and hopefully he still has some record of the serial number... likely in his
C & R log book. Another thought... when did Sauer terminate K98k HT production (or K98k entirely)? I had a ce44 which bore a Mauser O/an serial number and was finished/accepted there as well. Rifle was 100% matched. If Sauer was curtailing K98k production, seems the logical place they would have sent any unused inventory would have been Mauser. Perhaps this is where the remaining, unused KAHLES 4X60s went to.
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Fred, your assumption of surplus parts being diverted from JPS to Mauser Oberndorf makes perfect sense, given the fact that alot of other material went into late war Oberndorf assemblies - stocks and bolt bodies to name two. So why not optics as well.
This is certainly a possibility. However, Sauer stopped turret production around the T block and started long side rail production. It is not too common to find these scopes on long side rails. So it would be a long shot for one to be left over to be sent to Mauser. But as stated, good detailed pictures of the rifle and scope are needed. We can't possibly authenticate this with these pictures alone.
Another possibility is that during the first delivery of glasses manufactured by Khalès, there was an end to production with khalès marking.
How long is the rainshield?
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Fred, your assumption of surplus parts being diverted from JPS to Mauser Oberndorf makes perfect sense, given the fact that alot of other material went into late war Oberndorf assemblies - stocks and bolt bodies to name two. So why not optics as well.
Because they continued using the Kahles H/4x60 scopes on LSR mounts by adding recoil rings so they were still in need for those.
Will see about more photos next week when time permits. Spoke with my friend whom owned the other L-bloc byf 44 HT I mentioned. He was gobsmacked when I asked him about the rifle... "But that was 40 years ago..."
he wailed! It was too long ago and back in the day, when German arms of all kinds constantly came and went, so he had no specific recollection. He did say it was undoubtedly recorded in his first C & R log book (of which he had a photo-copy someplace), but would have been logged as a Kar98k "byf44" with no other details. However, when I related the story, he said, from my account, the story rung true. One last shot will be a call to "R.I.L." as he was the previous owner...
Maybe a mod would split the discussion on @pwcosol s rifle into an own thread, just to keep everything separately?

Generally to your rifle: at first glance it does looks convincing, but it would break the known rules for Kahles H/4x60 marked scopes so far only having been seen on J. P. Sauer & Sohn made K98k rifles. So it is a "first one", if we are to assume this could be legit. Therefore the interest, but also the restraint of people to call it legit or fake - including myself. There might be unusual reasons, such as recycled or aid or leftover disposal to other factories, but since nothing common, would need to see more to be able to give a first assessment/opinion.

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