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Spandau 1916 Gewehr 98 W/Dust Cover & Night Sights

mauser1908

Senior Member
Tbh. How does one know it came with those accessories from the factory? A past collector could’ve added those to the rifle in order to bolster the price more.
I believe this concept matters very little. Accessories and the accompanying rifle are always priced on their own merit, often with a “break” if someone buys everything. Buying all of these together should constitute a break, I think $3500 is beyond fair for the whole lot; considering the person that actually won this probably doesn’t have the knowledge to authenticate the accessories anyway.
 

Warrior1354

ax - hole
Scarce accessories are expensive nowadays. Very rarity have I found the night sights, and covers for sale in 15 years. If someone didn't want to give me a fair price for one of my rifles with all the accessories they would not get the accessories. Many collectors are proud of these items. I tried to buy a pair of night sights last year off a buddy, but he wanted $1500 for the pair. Instead I bought his 98b lol.
 
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Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
Because such wartime markings are unusual and I have not seen similar in this fashion (manner); typically wartime unit markings follow different patterns (than pre-war), often wartime markings are unique and often abbreviated form. I am not saying it is fraudulent but maybe "added", but could be real but only the 605th is known to me as legit.

In this game there are no rules, it could be legit, it has a good look to it but "alone" I take the right of suspicion until supported and I hold no one to a higher standard. Nor do I expect you to adopt my position. I retain my suspicion, but lets see your P08? It would lend some credibility to this if it looks as good as this example...
 

chrisftk

Moderator
Staff member
Because such wartime markings are unusual and I have not seen similar in this fashion (manner); typically wartime unit markings follow different patterns (than pre-war), often wartime markings are unique and often abbreviated form. I am not saying it is fraudulent but maybe "added", but could be real but only the 605th is known to me as legit.

In this game there are no rules, it could be legit, it has a good look to it but "alone" I take the right of suspicion until supported and I hold no one to a higher standard. Nor do I expect you to adopt my position. I retain my suspicion, but lets see your P08? It would lend some credibility to this if it looks as good as this example...
I'm inclined to think it's real Paul. I agree it looks hinky, but I've seen a rather high number of wartime unit marks from them. Cyrus has two marked 98/05s for instance.
 

Fal Grunt

Senior Member
There was a lot of good items at that auction and I watched a lot. There were some deals, but for the most part, everything went well above what I expected. Some of the prices were astounding. I'm surprised no one posted the Kar 98 that went for almost $3k? A very nice rifle, but not that nice.

I had figured this rifle with accessories would go for $2k-$3k, obviously I am out of touch.
 

Warrior1354

ax - hole
There was a lot of good items at that auction and I watched a lot. There were some deals, but for the most part, everything went well above what I expected. Some of the prices were astounding. I'm surprised no one posted the Kar 98 that went for almost $3k? A very nice rifle, but not that nice.

I had figured this rifle with accessories would go for $2k-$3k, obviously I am out of touch.
I'll tell you this I took the trench mag to almost $600. I compared it to other examples, and I believed it was original. But only had four pictures to go by. Another bidder bid it well over $700. So you then factor in the premiums, and shipping. He was probably close to $900 plus when he received it in hand.
 

chrisftk

Moderator
Staff member
There was a lot of good items at that auction and I watched a lot. There were some deals, but for the most part, everything went well above what I expected. Some of the prices were astounding. I'm surprised no one posted the Kar 98 that went for almost $3k? A very nice rifle, but not that nice.

I had figured this rifle with accessories would go for $2k-$3k, obviously I am out of touch.
On balance a bipolar auction. Those dewats were absurd. Still, deals to be had. I got a couple items.

I'll tell you this I took the trench mag to almost $600. I compared it to other examples, and I believed it was original. But only had four pictures to go by. Another bidder bid it well over $700. So you then factor in the premiums, and shipping. He was probably close to $900 plus when he received it in hand.
Maybe we are thinking of different listings, I remember seeing the mag at this auction...Back of envelope math... hammer price was actually $600 (I just went back and looked on proxibid) so x 1.18= $708, so even if $50 to ship, winner still did well on it. These don't show up often loose. I'm surprised there wasn't more action on it. The mag was absolutely real; probably a Bing based on the finish. Identical to the one on mine
 

PrayingMantis

Senior Member
Maybe we are thinking of different listings, I remember seeing the mag at this auction...Back of envelope math... hammer price was actually $600 (I just went back and looked on proxibid) so x 1.18= $708, so even if $50 to ship, winner still did well on it. These don't show up often loose. I'm surprised there wasn't more action on it. The mag was absolutely real; probably a Bing based on the finish. Identical to the one on mine
That’s what I saw. Someone got a good deal on that one.
 

Fal Grunt

Senior Member
On balance a bipolar auction. Those dewats were absurd. Still, deals to be had. I got a couple items.

Deals maybe under “retail” but I didn’t see much below the going rate at auctions after fees.

I was tempted by the Reichsrevolvers, both seemed reasonable, but again after fees, they weren’t much of a deal.

I wish more auction houses would include information about the person.
 

chrisftk

Moderator
Staff member
Deals maybe under “retail” but I didn’t see much below the going rate at auctions after fees.

I was tempted by the Reichsrevolvers, both seemed reasonable, but again after fees, they weren’t much of a deal.

I wish more auction houses would include information about the person.
I got a couple imperial grenades and the Suhler Gew 71. I'm in the 71 about 1250. Not a steal, but given the rarity I was prepared to go higher.
 

mauser1908

Senior Member
On balance a bipolar auction. Those dewats were absurd. Still, deals to be had. I got a couple items.


Maybe we are thinking of different listings, I remember seeing the mag at this auction...Back of envelope math... hammer price was actually $600 (I just went back and looked on proxibid) so x 1.18= $708, so even if $50 to ship, winner still did well on it. These don't show up often loose. I'm surprised there wasn't more action on it. The mag was absolutely real; probably a Bing based on the finish. Identical to the one on mine
Agreed, typically you’re doing alright if you stay under 1k for most accessories. Mags are much more scarce than dust covers, which hit $750 quite often. It’s not like they’re making any more of them.
 

AN-94

Well-known member
The pictures were lacking for sure. A couple items I would have gone higher if better information was provided and clear pictures.
I had asked for additional pictures of the S/42 K98k to see if it was truly all matching two weeks before the auction, sent a followup a week before and still got nothing. I'm not lucky enough to gamble with German stuff so I abstained from bidding.
I got a couple imperial grenades and the Suhler Gew 71. I'm in the 71 about 1250. Not a steal, but given the rarity I was prepared to go higher.
Congrats! Hope to see better pics of the Gewehr 71 when you get it.
 

OzzMan

Well-known member
I believe this concept matters very little. Accessories and the accompanying rifle are always priced on their own merit, often with a “break” if someone buys everything. Buying all of these together should constitute a break, I think $3500 is beyond fair for the whole lot; considering the person that actually won this probably doesn’t have the knowledge to authenticate the accessories anyway.
At the end of the day, something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it. The rifle could’ve brought $1 or it could’ve brought $10,000. Just depends on who is buying.
 

OnlyMil

Junior Member
Just my two cents, but when it comes to the dust covers at least, I'm rather certain that the repros never have fraktur acceptance markings in additional to all the other telltale signs. I have a W Co. DRP Kar98a dust cover set and either piece of spring steel is acceptance marked. Again jealous of yet another Gewehr 98... As I seem to keep attracting Kar98a's to my collection...
 

Loewe

Moderator²
Staff member
I'm inclined to think it's real Paul. I agree it looks hinky, but I've seen a rather high number of wartime unit marks from them. Cyrus has two marked 98/05s for instance.

Are they IR 164?

I looked through bayonets, only a 1903/Erfurt with this IR. Carter might have others, but i didn't see the IR164, certainly not wartime and 605th are wartime. Spandau/15 have 5-6 unit marked rifles in the database, 3 look like they could be tampered with (gouging around disc scaring etc...); it is something that experienced collectors support its legitimacy, maybe it is, - I will check rifles from around 1903, Jeff Noll and Carter in my library, - if examples surface from around 1903 (as these tend to group) I will update... but a "normal" line regiment still seems unlikely to me, - a wartime IR or unit sure, especially the history of the 605th and Carter's explanation for it, that makes sense, so too specialized units, assault or MG, but a line regiment? still have suspicions..
 

chrisftk

Moderator
Staff member
Are they IR 164?

I looked through bayonets, only a 1903/Erfurt with this IR. Carter might have others, but i didn't see the IR164, certainly not wartime and 605th are wartime. Spandau/15 have 5-6 unit marked rifles in the database, 3 look like they could be tampered with (gouging around disc scaring etc...); it is something that experienced collectors support its legitimacy, maybe it is, - I will check rifles from around 1903, Jeff Noll and Carter in my library, - if examples surface from around 1903 (as these tend to group) I will update... but a "normal" line regiment still seems unlikely to me, - a wartime IR or unit sure, especially the history of the 605th and Carter's explanation for it, that makes sense, so too specialized units, assault or MG, but a line regiment? still have suspicions..
IMG_20221125_051326~2.jpg

Here are Cyrus's 164th bayonets. They are marked the same way- a 98/05 and an S14 Sawback

I can't offer any explanation as to why they continued to use this format, only guesses-- chief among them being that maybe the old Hannoverian regiments held onto the practice longer. Or maybe this was some sort of regimental tradition specific to the 164th. I've seen other bayonets similar to Cyrus's.
 

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