Spandau Depot built bayonet

[CanadianAR]

I had asked Slash about the chances of finding a Depot built and marked bayonet awhile back. He advised me it would be tough, Took me a few years, and to be honest back then I would not have likely known enough. But I saw this one and snagged it,

It is a S/178/g scabbard that is well worn with only finish remaining under the frog area. It’s been mated with a Depot built bayonet .

The blade is a 37-38 Horster, (thanks Slash for being the Rainman of bayonet markings) based on the CW and EM markings on the blank, it is waa 253 on the black, mounting cut out, cross guard, and pommel. But it never had a serial number or year or maker stamp applied. It was a blank bayonet blank.
The latch is unnumbered but waa253, with an unnumbered e/155 nut. The unnumbered grips are early style eagle over 49…..which I’ve been told hasn’t been previously noted.
The assembly was numbered to match x cept no suffix. The flash guard is in the white, and is e/Su4 marked.
To me, it appears to have been assembled from armourers parts then numbered to a scabbard. I’m wondering if there are others out there.

Blade is really nice, unsharpened, nice look for a warhorse.

Looking forward to seeing others or know knowledge about this one.

 

[CanadianAR]

Few more

 

[AndyB]

Possible that the blank piece was delivered as armorer spare parts, it was sometime stamped with Horster, not all were delivered as blanks. I believe Slash could be corect on the dating of the piece. The press button marked WaA155 is from J.Sch. piece, so probably mixed here. The grips E/49 is well known from Horster sword H pre 1934 production. flashguard is a Spandau proofed piece, on grips normally should be new assembly marking, this looks more like a armorer repair reserialed to a avialable S187G scabbard for me as a true Spandau depot refurbishment.

 

[pwcosol]

I agree it is difficult to ascertain with any certainty, at what level or depot, refurbishment work on a S84/98 T3 may have taken place. The degree and/or sophistication of the work typically provides a clue. One of these can be the addition of a external (matched) serial number stamped on both bayonet and scabbard. On the former, the number is most often seen on the bayonet's ricasso or crossguard. The scabbard number is found on either side above the frog stud line (and on the face of the stud as well) or finial ball. These numbers are usually two digit, but can get into the lower hundreds, which points towards a larger facility being behind the operation. German field armorers were quite capable of repairing many problems encountered with bayonets but often left little evidence of their work. I believe where the major depots came into play was when arms and all sorts of other equipment was harvested off the field of battle, sent back to the rear and onto the various facilities for evaluation, repair/reissue or salvage.

Here are two S84/98s below. The first is Gottlieb Hammesfahr | Marienthal stamped on one side of the ricasso and the "foot kicking a soccer ball" on the other. Blade spine retains "Crown 17" acceptance on the spine. Though this is a Imperial S84/98 T2, it has been upgraded to emulate the T3 with brown plastic grips, "Su4" proofed flash guard and blued finish overall. The scabbard is a Imperial S84/98 T2 as well. There are no serial numbers on this piece. Of interest is the very heavy, black leather frog which had the cross-strap removed upon issuance. There is a very small pair of markings at the waist which defy identification. However, the one at the top may be a small WaA and below that are several letters.

The second is a true S84/98 T3 S173K. This one is likely a field repair. The code/date (which I believe is S173K) has been stippled out. The bayonet/scabbard serial numbers match and are of the exact same font. Only the finial ball exhibits a rework number of "75". Grip set, flashguard and catch all match each other, but not the original serial numbers. My guess is the original grips, catch, and flashguard had issues and were removed/replaced from salvage components. Scabbard has two moderate dents and may have been checked out to ensure they were not a problem, and worker "checked-off" said bayonet with the next sequential work number (75) being stamped on the finial ball.

 

[AndyB]

AR You should provide complete tang markings from right and left side. Locking lug should be too serialed.

 

[CanadianAR]

The only serial number added is the blade.
The rest appear To be new unused parts.
There seems to be little known about bayonet repair patterns. To me seems like piece built of spare parts, numbered only To a scabbard. It could be considered a repair, but the depot or armourer made it “whole” is what I mean by “built”

 

[AndyB]

The serialing of some parts were normally done even more by a depot piece of Spandau i would await more stamping inside of tang, this looks for me more as armorer repair piece, serialed to a preserved scabbard. There are digits one side 5 and other 2. But probably not on the fg and other parts, are the grips wout serialing, even by pencil?

 

[CanadianAR]

The serialing of some parts were normally done even more by a depot piece of Spandau i would await more stamping inside of tang, this looks for me more as armorer repair piece, serialed to a preserved scabbard. There are digits one side 5 and other 2. But probably not on the fg and other parts, are the grips wout serialing, even by pencil?

I will look again. FG appears to have a 3 stamp on it amongst the rust.

 

[CanadianAR]

Grips, latch, nut have nothing but waa
No signs of scrubbing, just new parts.
I see no pencil numbers.

One side of blank 2 CW. * 2
Second side of blank : 5 Waa253. EM (odd character 7, O?) 2(faint)

Definitely could be armourer level using Depot made flash guard. These Depot marked pieces are rare in rifles, and I’d assume rare on bayonet.

 

[AndyB]

Thanks for adding details. the grips are much older here and were brought from a different piece, could be removed pencil write on surface easily. I assume the bayonet is 1938 production spare piece, probably on crossguard is already a NS eagle WaA253. There exist spare armorer bayonets from this maker mainly from 1938.

 

[CanadianAR]

Thanks for adding details. the grips are much older here and were brought from a different piece, could be removed pencil write on surface easily. I assume the bayonet is 1938 production spare piece, probably on crossguard is already a NS eagle WaA253. There exist spare armorer bayonets from this maker mainly from 1938.

Yes, recycled or old spare parts on the grips.

It’s an interesting piece of refurbishment or repair.

 

[CanadianAR]

I’ll add the hardware slots are kind of bent shite from external damage. Have to remove spanner nuts and was very tough to disassemble. Lots of rust and bad fitment on screws to FG.

 

[grimlin13]

Very interesting bayonets and great finds. Some bayonets can "talk", just have to be able to decode what they are saying.
Thank you to C. AR for posting, to pwcosol for pics and knowledge, to AndyB for his fathomless knowledge of bayonets, and to Slash for all he brings to this forum and the bayonet collecting community. In the 12 years I have been a member here, I have learned so much from you guys.

 

[CanadianAR]

Very cool pieces Fred! Nice to see another su4 part on a bayonet that doesn’t fit normal parameters.