Third Party Press

Unmarked 84/98

Cololab

Senior Member
I thought I'd photos of an unmarked bayonet I dragged home from somewhere. No maker marks or proofs anywhere except for the number 663 on the inside of the press stud. I couldn't get the grips off, so I have no idea what might be under them. The scabbard is likewise devoid of any markings or proofs. Fortunately, the frog is very nicely marked.

The blade profile of the false edge looks like someone removed too much material and the true edge doesn't look properly ground either. The overall appearance looks later war (or maybe post war)?

Thoughts?
 

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AndyB

Senior Member
Nice blanko piece, Behoerden S84/98, most real 1943/4 date, frog of this maker normally have a brown paint over leather or is patinated, this is a LW type. The point of blade is little under center, anyway i dont believe its postwar refurbished.I would preffer a Hoerster as possible maker, but maybe Slash or other Experts have other opinion.
 

Slash

Moderator
Staff member
The bayonet was made by Hörster. The locking bolt or lug appears to be a replacement, not original to the piece. The top beveled edge at the tip is unevenly completed which is not unusual. Agree with Andrej that the blade is all period; not post war refurbished. A nice behoerden piece for sure. Unusual to see frogs in unfinished leather. Thanks for posting ....
 

Cololab

Senior Member
Thanks, gentlemen, for the courtesy of your replies. Since I know just about enough about these blades to be dangerous (if I'm even at that level of knowledge), would you be so kind as to tell me what features enabled you to determine the maker of this bayonet?

Thanks again!
 

Cololab

Senior Member
Grinding marks on the blade are typical of Horster as well as the finish of the lower portion of the scabbard.

Thanks for sharing your observations. I think I see the manufacturing characteristics you identify when I compare this bayonet to my matching 44asw. The matching 42asw in the photos definitely reflects differences and the higher level of earlier war manufacturing.

Thanks again to all who helped here. Left to my own abilities I would have never identified the unmarked bayonet as having been made by Horster.
 

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AndyB

Senior Member
Yes side by side comparation is the best choice, mainly by similar dated pieces, 1943/44. There are not so many firm produced blankos so the identifying is easier.
The frog could be depot piece, not used, long time out of sun, there are some natural leather frogs of 1942 from different maker too observed.
 

Cololab

Senior Member
Out of curiousity, where in the overall scheme of bayonet usage do these unmarked items fall? Were they sold or otherwise provided to military units or were they used by other organizations?

I should have added that I found a forum post that states bayonets like this one were principally issued to various governmental organizations. That said, did the SS ever get any of these unmarked bayonets?
 
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Slash

Moderator
Staff member
Thanks, gentlemen, for the courtesy of your replies. ....would you be so kind as to tell me what features enabled you to determine the maker of this bayonet?

As Andrej indicated there were only a handful of firms that manufactured late war behoerden bayonets. Three or fours companies only and Hörster was responsible for the vast majority of the pieces produced. Over time you can become familiar with the appearance and traits of the various producers. The shape and finish to the pommel, the machining of the blade, ricasso, and the crossguard are all distinctly Hörster. As is the frog hanging hook.

What is the serial number on your matching 44asw if I might ask?
 

Cololab

Senior Member
As Andrej indicated there were only a handful of firms that manufactured late war behoerden bayonets. Three or fours companies only and Hörster was responsible for the vast majority of the pieces produced. Over time you can become familiar with the appearance and traits of the various producers. The shape and finish to the pommel, the machining of the blade, ricasso, and the crossguard are all distinctly Hörster. As is the frog hanging hook.

What is the serial number on your matching 44asw if I might ask?


The 44asw number is 104y.
 

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