Model
Senior Member
Well after reading this I'm glad I don't have anymore. lol All I've been shooting for the last 5 years is the PPU. Being an Cold War firearms collector anything E.German always attracted me.
PTR44 Semi-Auto MP44
- Thread starter mrfarb
- Start date
Well after reading this I'm glad I don't have anymore. lol All I've been shooting for the last 5 years is the PPU. Being an Cold War firearms collector anything E.German always attracted me.
sprat
Senior Member
this has been a known fact for many years all warsaw pact steel case and probably WW2 production is rusting from the inside out, due to the corrosive properties of the propellants. this goes for 7.62 x 39mm and 7.62 x 54r. worst yet when you fire this stuff most of the primers contain mercury.
this also goes for limited brass production of warsaw pact ammo. once the round is fired, these corrosive metals are injected into the brass, there by weakening it. this is why I never advocate attempting to reload this brass. yet there are guys who insist on attempting it to save money, I never understood this , when new virgin boxer primed brass is available.
this also goes for limited brass production of warsaw pact ammo. once the round is fired, these corrosive metals are injected into the brass, there by weakening it. this is why I never advocate attempting to reload this brass. yet there are guys who insist on attempting it to save money, I never understood this , when new virgin boxer primed brass is available.
Winchester Cowboy
Senior Member
Did the SSD BD44 and SSD BD42H come with a factory booklet or manual? If they did, could someone post it? Thanks.
ncreptile
Senior Member
HMG MP44.. 
Talk about carrot on a stick going on 2 years now. For the past couple years "anticipating shipping in two months" "estimate in two months" then after a year and a half of that it switched to "2 to 4 weeks".
Yet here we are after almost 2 years of that carrot and it's still not within reach.
They love to say things like "Small business" "Veteran employees" "American made" but the boy can only cry wolf so many times. They also like to say "we will refund anyones preorder money that wants it." AKA translation.. We don't want to cause a stampede of selloffs on the stock market so like bernie madoff we will quietly refund you, post up another video of one of the half finished rifles firing 4 rounds and get 2-3 more preorders to make up for you.
The above is my opinion. I wouldn't put it past them to sue hence why I'm saying it's entirely my personal opinion.
Talk about carrot on a stick going on 2 years now. For the past couple years "anticipating shipping in two months" "estimate in two months" then after a year and a half of that it switched to "2 to 4 weeks".
Yet here we are after almost 2 years of that carrot and it's still not within reach.
They love to say things like "Small business" "Veteran employees" "American made" but the boy can only cry wolf so many times. They also like to say "we will refund anyones preorder money that wants it." AKA translation.. We don't want to cause a stampede of selloffs on the stock market so like bernie madoff we will quietly refund you, post up another video of one of the half finished rifles firing 4 rounds and get 2-3 more preorders to make up for you.
The above is my opinion. I wouldn't put it past them to sue hence why I'm saying it's entirely my personal opinion.
messerschmittfan
Well-known member
I always look for the cheap East German or WWII 7.92x33 rounds I can find. I do not shoot it out of my rifles but pull the bullets to put in my new brass, the case and powder is trashed/burnt. Those bullets seem to work better than the new slugs. I have seen some really bad looking, rusting from the inside rounds but the slugs are good. Harry
Model
Senior Member
HMG MP44..
Talk about carrot on a stick going on 2 years now. For the past couple years "anticipating shipping in two months" "estimate in two months" then after a year and a half of that it switched to "2 to 4 weeks".
Yet here we are after almost 2 years of that carrot and it's still not within reach.
They love to say things like "Small business" "Veteran employees" "American made" but the boy can only cry wolf so many times. They also like to say "we will refund anyones preorder money that wants it." AKA translation.. We don't want to cause a stampede of selloffs on the stock market so like bernie madoff we will quietly refund you, post up another video of one of the half finished rifles firing 4 rounds and get 2-3 more preorders to make up for you.
The above is my opinion. I wouldn't put it past them to sue hence why I'm saying it's entirely my personal opinion.
Reptile I don't think anyone on this forum gives a damn about the HMG Stg44 Look-A-Like Gun.
Most here want a real Mp44 Clone, not something that happens to look like one from 10 yards away.
Bring on the product DINGO.
Last edited:
ncreptile
Senior Member
Reptile I don't think anyone on this forum gives a damn about the HMG Stg44 Look-A-Like Gun.
Most here want a real Mp44 Clone, not something that happens to look like one from 10 yards away.
Bring on the product DINGO.
I sure don't want one.
Thats why my new PTR44 is arriving tomorrow.
Can't wait.
Model
Senior Member
I sure don't want one.
Thats why my new PTR44 is arriving tomorrow.
Great, welcome to the PTR44 club. Is it OEM or have some of the internals been replaced?
Last edited:
ncreptile
Senior Member
Thanks,
I believe it is OEM. The seller has fired it some and said it was OK to shoot other than one magazine constantly jammed(we can guess who made that magazine
).Came with a repro mount and zf4 scope along with several hundred rounds of ammo and some spare parts. I couldn't say no.
I certainly was not going to wait around for the HMG gun anymore.
Intruder196
Senior Member
I have made hundreds of 8mm kurz using the RCBS case forming set since the early 90's. I would say that whoever made the reformed 30-06/308 cases skipped a step. Either the reamer wasn't fully run to the bottom or the case wasn't full length resized after all the forming/reaming steps. In the early 90's I bought a class3 MP44 and found some original Kurz and some E German kurz. But I knew both of those were corrosive. So I planned to roll my own. The first batch I made stuck in the chamber like you described. I was at an indoor range that allowed rifles, even class 3 ones, to be used. This was the first time shooting the rifle after I took possession of it. The range had a prohibition on steel core ammo though. I took a magazine worth of my reloads. I never got a single burst. Every round stuck in the chamber and took a lot of force to remove the empty shell. I wasn't sure if it was a fault with the headspacing or the reformed brass. I then reached into my pocket and pulled out 5 of the 10 rounds of E German kurz I had snuck in. The range master saw that and wanted to check them with a magnet. While he was checking I quickly loaded the other 5 rounds of E German into a mag and managed to fire a five round burst and collect the empty cases before he returned to inform me they were steel core. That at least proved to me the fault was in my formed cases and not the rifle itself.
Later I figured out that even though I had reamed the case necks I had not run the reamer deep enough into the case to remove enough material to seat a bullet without expanding the neck too much. Since then I have not had a problem with formed brass. Like others have said, forming your own is time consuming. But back then I had about 2000 rounds of original WW2 German kurz and about 1000 rounds of E German kurz that I used to take to outdoor ranges. I never had any problems with the E German kurz. It was pretty accurate too. But the WW2 kurz had a couple of case separations. I did not notice any rust inside the spent empties.
I later sold that ammo with the rifle to a guy in Georgia.
Later I figured out that even though I had reamed the case necks I had not run the reamer deep enough into the case to remove enough material to seat a bullet without expanding the neck too much. Since then I have not had a problem with formed brass. Like others have said, forming your own is time consuming. But back then I had about 2000 rounds of original WW2 German kurz and about 1000 rounds of E German kurz that I used to take to outdoor ranges. I never had any problems with the E German kurz. It was pretty accurate too. But the WW2 kurz had a couple of case separations. I did not notice any rust inside the spent empties.
I later sold that ammo with the rifle to a guy in Georgia.
Alrighty. I took the rifle out to the range both yesterday and today. Yesterday was 30 rounds of reload ammunition that came from someone who used to own an original matching MP44. I saw the rifle some years ago but I never fired it nor do I remember who made it or when. I only remember that it was in VERY nice condition. He passed on and the family sold the rifle but I was given all of the ammunition including German wartime, Czech, East German and reloads made from 30.06 and .308 cases. I was also given components including empty fired cases and formed cases that were ready to reload as well as Hornady and Speer 125gr bullets. Bear with me, as I am going somewhere with all of this. I know that the reloads must have worked in his original MP44 even though the shoulder profile is quite different than the factory steel case stuff. I know this because I have a large bag of fired brass that looks just like the loaded rounds. Now, my question was....would it work in my rifle? Why no, no it won't. Out of 30 rounds I tried (ten rounds per magazine each time), only 13 would allow the bolt to close. Those thirteen had shoulder profiles most like (although still unlike) period factory rounds. They fired but either he down loaded them or they stuck in the chamber pretty good because all but a couple fell out of the ejection port about three inches and plopped down on the table. A couple flew but only about five feet. However, they are now fire formed to my chamber so I pretty much know what it looks like in there. The ones that would not chamber would bind the action up pretty good, requiring me to bang the charging handle on the edge of the table to get the action open. So, did his original rifle have a sloppy chamber? I don't know....maybe. So yesterday was a failure but I kind of expected it given the shoulder profile on the rounds.
Last night after cleaning, I removed the firing pin and put five rounds of East German in the magazine. They fed and ejected just fine although I did have one case of the bolt not picking up a round. I know that is a problem with SSD magazines. So, I was confident for today. I picked out the most beat up box of 1961 DDR rounds out of the stash and another box of 11 mixed DDR rounds from 1958 and 1961.
Today, I headed out again with 19 rounds of 1961 DDR and 7 rounds of 1958 DDR. One magazine had 15 rounds while the other had 11. I had one case of the bolt not picking up a round in each magazine. I also had 7 dud rounds that did not go off. However, I had no jams of any kind and, while I was primarily testing function and not accuracy, I had no problem hitting approx. 5 " rocks at 100 yards. I didn't even bother to take a target, preferring instead to just aim at objects lying in the berm.
Let's look at some rounds first:
Starting from the left, we have a 1943 German round, a 1946 Czech, 1962 East German, fired 1961 East German, form fired reload from my rifle and reload that would not chamber in my rifle. Remember that all of the reloads are formed from 30.06 and .308 brass. Note the much less distinct shoulder profile on the unusable reload compared with everything to the left of it.
Here are 5 random DDR cases that I fired:
I will get some Privi Partisan as my primary ammo but I don't have any yeti. I'll probably end up reloading too at some point.
Now on to the bolt and carrier. First up is the bolt. At this point its round count is 82. I'm using the one numbered to the rifle until Dingo's are imported. It looks like it is a getting good purchase on the locking block:
Where it interacts with the locking cam on the carrier looks ok:
Looking at the bolt from the front, we can see that the left claw on the carrier is engaging it more than the right BUT it was like this before I installed the new carrier so that doesn't tell us much given the low round count:
There is also a bit of peening where the web on the carrier hits. BUT these marks were there BEFORE today and ARE NOT caused by the new carrier:
There is some crud in there that makes the curved area look rough and beat but it's smooth. The peening is on either side of that area just where the radius begins. Problem or normal? I have no idea as I have no prior experience with these rifles.
The carrier has a round count of 32.
Left side of unlocking claw area looks fine:
Several shots from different angles of the right side showing some peening of the web.
These marks were not there before I fired it. Again, normal or not, I do no know. I only post them because they are there. I have rifles that exhibit peening of parts as they mate so it does not particularly bother me so long as it does stop at some point. You guys with original carriers, have you seen this before? Again, I am NOT saying this is bad because I have zero experience with these rifles so I don't yet know what is normal and what is cause for concern. Time will tell.
That's where I'm at. Once I begin my "in detail" thread, I'll incorporate this information into that thread but I figured it's relevant here too.
Desert_Faux
Senior Member
Brilliant post x2 Intruder!
That's exactly what happened to me the first time I went to shoot my new BD44 with 8mm kurz reloads made from .308 that I had purchased from an online dealer... they wouldn't even completely chamber.
All my reloads made with my Lee and Hornady 8mm kurz did set work perfectly, though I do have the RCBS Form Die set too in case I run out of 8mm kurz brass in the future. So very good to know about making sure to ream the case necks out completely.
Before I got my BD44 (PTR44) I was going to shoot these reloads in a range friends original StG44, but the week before we were to go, the Federal Government and the Mounties rescinded all SAPs (Special Authorization Permits) for "Prohibited" grandfathered rifles in Canada... so they were no longer allowed to be taken out and shot... only allowed to be safe queens... The authorities said they had to do it for "Public Safety", no more "machine guns" on our streets.... lololol. Gun control at its finest... so, at least I didn't jam these reloads into someone else's original...
That's exactly what happened to me the first time I went to shoot my new BD44 with 8mm kurz reloads made from .308 that I had purchased from an online dealer... they wouldn't even completely chamber.
All my reloads made with my Lee and Hornady 8mm kurz did set work perfectly, though I do have the RCBS Form Die set too in case I run out of 8mm kurz brass in the future. So very good to know about making sure to ream the case necks out completely.
Before I got my BD44 (PTR44) I was going to shoot these reloads in a range friends original StG44, but the week before we were to go, the Federal Government and the Mounties rescinded all SAPs (Special Authorization Permits) for "Prohibited" grandfathered rifles in Canada... so they were no longer allowed to be taken out and shot... only allowed to be safe queens... The authorities said they had to do it for "Public Safety", no more "machine guns" on our streets.... lololol. Gun control at its finest... so, at least I didn't jam these reloads into someone else's original...
Winchester Cowboy
Senior Member
When Swapping in an Original Bolt in the SSD BD-44 or PTR44, are there any Bolts that will not work? IE: With or Without Diagonal Relief; Slit or No Slit for Extractor Spring?
Will any MP44, Stg44 or MP43/1 Bolt work in the SSD BD-44 or PTR44?
Thanks.
Will any MP44, Stg44 or MP43/1 Bolt work in the SSD BD-44 or PTR44?
Thanks.
This is my current PTR44 setup.
I am running a Stg44 op-rod/carrier with a new Recon bolt/ejector (top) my backup is the repaired op-rod/carrier with the original bolt and new Recon ejector.
HDH.
reformed cases
Interesting re the reformed cases. I was too cheap to buy the RCBS case reforming setup and tried using a regular Hornady 8 Kurz size die from the reloading die set. It works fine with shoulders forming perfect. I cut a chamber in a piece of round stock for a case headspace gauge and had reamer ground with a pilot for the inside case reaming before removing the case from the die. Driving the reamer with the Bridgeport with the press bolted to the table of the mill.
Have to put a pipe on the handle of the old Lachmiller press though even with the cases well lubed. Thinking I'll anneal the cases after cutting to length next batch before forming. The .308 case walls are quite thick and annealing should reduce the resize effort. More than a little time consuming but good to be able to use .308 cases I have no other use for.
Pete
Interesting re the reformed cases. I was too cheap to buy the RCBS case reforming setup and tried using a regular Hornady 8 Kurz size die from the reloading die set. It works fine with shoulders forming perfect. I cut a chamber in a piece of round stock for a case headspace gauge and had reamer ground with a pilot for the inside case reaming before removing the case from the die. Driving the reamer with the Bridgeport with the press bolted to the table of the mill.
Have to put a pipe on the handle of the old Lachmiller press though even with the cases well lubed. Thinking I'll anneal the cases after cutting to length next batch before forming. The .308 case walls are quite thick and annealing should reduce the resize effort. More than a little time consuming but good to be able to use .308 cases I have no other use for.
Pete
KDF82
Senior Member
Speaking for the PTR I have. The original PTR bolt with replacement Dingo extractor and original WW2 op rod or Dingos newly made won't work with a darn. Won't feed regardless of mag and when it does manage to chamber a round, it won't extract. I should seal it in Lucite as trench art! Dingo op rod and original late bolt works beautifully so far with WW2 mags and Numerich copies from Taiwan.
Did you ever get a reply about a PTR manual? My question fell on deaf ears though I keep forgetting to ask Dingo directly..
Model
Senior Member
Yes My pictures, the trials and tribulations of getting that damn rifle to function. The final configuration was an original NAZI oprod/carrier & Bolt. (fitted by Shortfal) the Replacement recon bolt was (for me) worthless.
The more original MP44 parts one can have fitted to the PTR44 the better.
