Simson & Co SUHL 1915

[falc45]

I recently picked up a Simson & Co 1915 SUHL for $200. Not sure what i found, would appreciate any feedback, and details on markings. Also if you know the age or any history i would be very grateful. The numbers all seem to match except the bolt. Last question, what bayonet goes with the rifle?

Thank you for any information.

 

[flynaked]

Damn, hard one to find, great score!! I can help you with pictures if you’d like.

 

[Warrior1354]

Well thats a hell of welcome posting one the rarest Gew98 rifles you can own! A 1915 Simson & Co Suhl! Sent you a PM with alot more information details on your rifle.

You will need too post pictures of the right side and left side of your receiver as well. Also the stock accepted stamps too. These rifles by this maker have unique acceptance stamps commonly found on Simson and Dresden production Gew98 rifles. From my notes I believe Simson only delivered like 1600 rifles in the year of 1915 too. I wonder if this rifle falls in that serial number range.

Still a nice rifle rare rifle that is damn hard too find! Really congrats too you sir!

 

[falc45]

Damn, hard one to find, great score!! I can help you with pictures if you’d like.

I keep trying to upload them, but it says i am over my quota?

Dan

 

[heavy_mech]

I keep trying to upload them, but it says i am over my quota?

Might be part of the noob penalty? Thinking you need more posts before you can upload more? Not sure of the exact number but a mod probably will be along.

Regarding the rifle, as Jordan said it's a veritable unicorn and quite sought after by some collectors. I'm sure Loewe will make his way over with more information. Congrats to you sir. Look forward to seeing and learning more about this.

 

[falc45]

Photos of markings

Got photos to upload

 

[mrfarb]

Simson & Co SUHL 1915

Can you post photos of the markings in the right side of the receiver and also stock markings?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[falc45]

Can you post photos of the markings in the right side of the receiver and also stock markings?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did the ones above come through?

 

[mrfarb]

Yes, these came through fine. Tracking these for study really helps with photos of the imperial cyphers located on the right side of the receiver and stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[falc45]

Yes, these came through fine. Tracking these for study really helps with photos of the imperial cyphers located on the right side of the receiver and stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

just added more in the original post!

 

[flynaked]

Sir, here are the two areas that would be helpful to see that he’s asking about.



*****oops I see that you got at least the RR included now, the stock side is just missing***

 

[falc45]

Sir, here are the two areas that would be helpful to see that he’s asking about.



*****oops I see that you got at least the RR included now, the stock side is just missing***

I just added them to original post. One of each side.

 

[flynaked]

Haha yep I missed that one too! Thank you sir, very helpful. Once again, a great score on that rifle,
congrats!

 

[falc45]

i definitely would appreciate any insights you all have.

 

[Warrior1354]

From the buttplate looks like it passed through depot #11 for Posen.

 

[mrfarb]

i definitely would appreciate any insights you all have.

I am going to say a little later today the mod on this forum "Loewe" will be along to give you more insight on this rifle that you can stand, what we've done is get your photos ready (meaning the helpful ones for him) to give you a good answer. As stated, very tough gun to find, but I won't pretend to be any kind of expert on these - that's coming though.

 

[heavy_mech]

.."Loewe" will be along to give you more insight on this rifle that you can stand

I appreciate reading his stories. I thought he was mad at me at one point earlier though not sure why exactly.

 

[Loewe]

Yes, a wonderful rifle, very rare maker-date and desirable in almost any condition. This rifle is pretty original, I see it passed through a depot, probably accounts for the few mismatched parts (rear sight, possible re-numbered rear band, follower), also you do not show the trigger guard, which is often replaced on depot rifles. I assume it is original due to your statement that it is all matching and the part being too obvious to overlook in such an observation.

The buttplate is a little unclear, Jordan said "11" which is Posen, but it looks more "H" which is attributed to Hannover, the characteristic "S" under the "H" is also typical for Hannover. The re-numbering of the rear band is more typical of Hannover than Posen also, - Hannover actually built up rifles and seems to have done better work than their cousins to the east. Anyway, better pictures would be helpful here as I think Hannover is a better facility, though hardly important to your primary question (price-value).

Simson had a hard start making the G98, probably the most capable of the Suhl firms, they faced resistance from DWM (Storz is good reading on the background), they eventually overcame this obstacle and would go on to make a lot of rifles for such a small operation. Simson serialed without rolling over from 1915 to 1916, so your rifle is the 1593 rd made, though this does not account for rifles that failed testing and inspection (and most firms had a significant failure rate, in the beginning it was probably higher) and just because this rifle falls in the range of rifles delivered by Simson in 1915 doesn't necessarily mean it actually was. Many rifles failed inspection (some rejected) and testing and faced delays before final acceptance, but that it is so early in 1915 probably means it was delivered in 1915.

The trends for Simson show that they serialed up to 3567 rifles dated 1915, this rifle is before the halfway mark and is pretty early. The earliest 1916 Simson known is 4408 and we can assume somewhere in-between these two numbers is the roll over from 1915 to 1916 dated receivers (actual deliveries, according to Storz - from official documents - 1600 rifles were delivered by Simson during 1915 = September 30, October 120, November 473, December 977). Your rifle barely falls in this first years range, so assuming this reflected actual deliveries your rifle was delivered to the military in December 1915 (just barely falls in the 1600 rifles range)

As for value, as I told you through my website yesterday, I'd say $800-1000 if the rest is as good as you have shown. Looks honest and original, a few inconsequential replacement parts, which is terribly common for any 1915 dated rifle.... this rifle is pretty nice for a 1915. Of course it would be more desirable with less wear, but from the looks of it is pretty honest wear and limited abuse. The Saxons tended to use up their rifles... very difficult to find a nice Saxon cyphered rifle (Prussian and Bavarian are pretty common in upper grades, especially later years)

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if you could get more than $1000 if you put extra effort in selling it. Pictures sells rifles, hype doesn't hurt, and neither does patience. Everyone knows this is the rarest standard production G98 of the war, more elusive and rare than any other production line variation (maker-date, including WOK/1915, only rare variations are more elusive, the Radfahrergewehr98 and snipers for instance)

 

[Amberg]

That said, it wouldn't surprise me if you could get more than $1000 if you put extra effort in selling it. Pictures sells rifles, hype doesn't hurt, and neither does patience. Everyone knows this is the rarest standard production G98 of the war, more elusive and rare than any other production line variation (maker-date, including WOK/1915, only rare variations are more elusive, the Radfahrergewehr98 and snipers for instance)

Very nice rifle!

 

[falc45]

Yes, a wonderful rifle, very rare maker-date and desirable in almost any condition. This rifle is pretty original, I see it passed through a depot, probably accounts for the few mismatched parts (rear sight, possible re-numbered rear band, follower), also you do not show the trigger guard, which is often replaced on depot rifles. I assume it is original due to your statement that it is all matching and the part being too obvious to overlook in such an observation.

[/B])

Very valuable information. I tried to look on the different gun selling websites and the only thing i could find was a 1916 Simson Suhl that was going for $1750 with 4 days left. Is this more rare then the 1916?