1890 Amberg 88/05 4166e Bond Rifle

[chrisftk]

Hi All,

Got this one cheap a couple weeks ago thanks to Cyrus kindly noticing it-- very coincidental there was some conversation around bond 88s shortly beforehand. This one is interesting because it is also a rare, non-turked 88/05--and an Amberg to boot. It's a nice textbook example of the 88/05 features as well. The extra acceptance on the RR and stock are present, the updated rear sight, plug-welded stripper clip guides and the modifications to the magazine are all present. The rifle matches, save for the bolt (par for the course on bond rifles).

As noted in a prior 88/05 post, the lions share of 88/05s were sent to the Ottomans during the war-- part of this included grinding and stamping eastern arabic numbers on the rear sight. Many still in German hands were destroyed post war. I've only seen a handful of 88/05s that retain the German rear sight. Here is another example I posted a while back. This one fortunately had a matching bolt.

Matching Erfurt 1895 Gew 88/05

Hi All, Here is another recent find. While 88/05s are quite common-- particularly Turk'ed pieces, you typically don't see much better than a bolt mismatch. This is the first matching example I've come across for sale (well, bolt head is m/m, but original German) Also interesting is the fact...

www.k98kforum.com

The demilling of bond 88s consisted of plugging the bore, removing the bolt head and clipping the firing pin. This one exhibits all three.

For Amberg geeks: Note the assembly number of 109 in a few places.

Not much more to say other than that. Here are the pics:

 

[chrisftk]

More pics:

 

[joryfreeburg]

Nice piece of wood on this rifle… kinda crazy for an 1890. The band is really neat on this piece as well. Congrats on the pickup

 

[Loewe]

Thanks goodness for the coalition you guys have formed to help one another! Super nice, added it to trends thread with hyperlink to thread. From recollection that looks like a probable Steyr bolt which is close enough to Amberg! Better than Prussian!

 

[mauser1908]

This is an awesome rifle, Chris. It’s personally the only bond rifle made from a gew88 that I’ve seen.

 

[chrisftk]

Nice piece of wood on this rifle… kinda crazy for an 1890. The band is really neat on this piece as well. Congrats on the pickup

Thanks Jory, the Amberg 88s are just really nice in general. I've got three 88 rifles (90, 91 and 92) and a rebuild carbine from there. The Bavarians seemed to use a really nice dark stain for a lot of the stocks. It really gives a great character to the wood. Not all have it, but the ones that do just really "pop".

Thanks goodness for the coalition you guys have formed to help one another! Super nice, added it to trends thread with hyperlink to thread. From recollection that looks like a probable Steyr bolt which is close enough to Amberg! Better than Prussian!

Thanks Paul! I agree, there has been some good reciprocating finds around here. Cyrus has a little something I sourced for him coming soon. I won't steal any thunder, but it's one he's been seeking for a long time.

 

[Stan]

Very nice! You don't see many non-Turked 88/05's here in the US it seems! I wonder if many of these bond rifles were returned to a serviceable condition? I have read posts about folks un-plugging the barrels on some of these Bond rifles in the past, and Gew 88 bolt heads seem to be sought often in the WTB lists.

 

[PrayingMantis]

It's an awesome one, Chris, glad you snagged it! It's in a reference; great to have another Amberg 88 in there.

 

[Loewe]

Very nice! You don't see many non-Turked 88/05's here in the US it seems! I wonder if many of these bond rifles were returned to a serviceable condition? I have read posts about folks un-plugging the barrels on some of these Bond rifles in the past, and Gew 88 bolt heads seem to be sought often in the WTB lists.

MauserBill reversed one of mine, one of the recycled pre-war G98's that passed through the Suhl start-ups and Danzig (in my case a CGH receiver); it is not all that easy and Bill said upfront that there was a chance the chamber would be damaged, but in this case it worked out. Not many G88 were brought here for the bond drives, or at least not many are noted today. Personally I find these far more interesting because of it's nature, this is essentially how it was captured by the French with only superficial (though significant mechanically) alterations to its collectability (I have owned quite a few G88's, but have never fired one).

This is a special discovery because of its original state and its known originality, even its period modification (demill) is less important because it is attributable to a period context that other rifles can be judged by (trends are best when you have a good sampling of period original-matching as baselines that can flesh out theories as a whole. For instance, when you have a pool of 100 rifles, it is better to have "less" mismatchers and Turks, or rc's populating a theory...)

Besides, it's Bavarian! In my book only a Loewe would possibly be more intriguing, but in this case with the importance of the unit markings to research (trends) and its obvious originality (not typical of G88 unit trends in general as so many are probably "mated" more recently as is typical of "restorations") makes it just as good!

 

[Loewe]

Thanks Jory, the Amberg 88s are just really nice in general. I've got three 88 rifles (90, 91 and 92) and a rebuild carbine from there. The Bavarians seemed to use a really nice dark stain for a lot of the stocks. It really gives a great character to the wood. Not all have it, but the ones that do just really "pop".


Thanks Paul! I agree, there has been some good reciprocating finds around here. Cyrus has a little something I sourced for him coming soon. I won't steal any thunder, but it's one he's been seeking for a long time.

MikeF and I did a little of what you guys have turned into an art form, but it took awhile, Mike and I have similar tastes and we were costing each other money bidding against one another (mostly costing him as I have never had a large budget and I typically bought more accessories, slings MC etc.. than rifles)

It is also good in that 3,4,5 collectors looking closely at (vetting) potential rifles can only help too, even the most experienced and knowledgeable collector can get snookered, especially when relying on poor angles or photography

 

[Cyrano4747]

Hey, I love poor angles and photos taken in a dimly lit garage with a flip phone from the 90s.

Rolling those dice are how I’ve gotten most of my really good deals.

Plus a few tomato stakes but c’est la vie.

 

[chrisftk]

This is an awesome rifle, Chris. It’s personally the only bond rifle made from a gew88 that I’ve seen.

Thanks Sam! 100%. I know of another but they are far scarcer than Gew 98s. I can't recall ever seeing a bond 98a though. I bet they exist.

You don't see many non-Turked 88/05's here in the US it seems!

No, they are tough to find. The original German 88/05 rear sight is a real treat. Pretty rare to see. The Germans ground and restamped the sights prior to export to Turkey. Later on the Turks ground them again and restamped with Western numbers as part of Attaturk's reforms. Those are sometimes mistaken for German sights, but they aren't.

It's an awesome one, Chris, glad you snagged it! It's in a reference; great to have another Amberg 88 in there.

Thanks Cyrus--i appreciate you putting it on my radar. I'll get my 1892 up here sometime too.

(I have owned quite a few G88's, but have never fired one).

Besides, it's Bavarian! In my book only a Loewe would possibly be more intriguing,

Thanks as always for the insights Paul.

I find 88s to be highly underrated shooters. (And underrated collectibles in general) They have a lot to offer. The same prewar fit and finish as a Gew98 at a much more appealing price. The only issue is the scarcity of nice ones. The market was flooded with so many turk rifles many GB sellers don't even differentiate and assume they are junk.

I also agree on Loewe-- that 1891 I got several years ago still may be my favorite 88.

Rolling those dice are how I’ve gotten most of my really good deals.

Amen. I don't mind a gamble. We get burned sometimes, but the wins make you want to try again.

 

[AndyB]

As visible here the barell was replaced, firstly there is maker VCS, and the german proofs are different as on other place of the rifle. The serial 109 is evidently made later as by installing. There is not full old serial number same as is visible traces of barell removing.

 

[Cyrano4747]

As visible here the barell was replaced, firstly there is maker VCS, and the german proofs are different as on other place of the rifle. The serial 109 is evidently made later as by installing. There is not full old serial number same as is visible traces of barell removing.

Can you expand on this? You said something similar in another thread and I'm not quite sure what I should be looking at here. Are you implying that the stamps and SN were faked, or that they were renumbered as part of depot overhaul, or something else?

I'm not as on the ball with spotting inconsistencies in Imperial weapons as I am Nazi-era rifles, but I'm trying to get better at that, so if there's anything particular you could highlight I'd be both interested and appreciative.

 

[chrisftk]

Can you expand on this? You said something similar in another thread and I'm not quite sure what I should be looking at here. Are you implying that the stamps and SN were faked, or that they were renumbered as part of depot overhaul, or something else?

I'm not as on the ball with spotting inconsistencies in Imperial weapons as I am Nazi-era rifles, but I'm trying to get better at that, so if there's anything particular you could highlight I'd be both interested and appreciative.

I don't think he's implying it's fake in the least-- I think he's saying it was re-barreled later (possibly as part of the 88/05 reworking, which Amberg was very likely a part of. I agree with him that it was re-barreled.

Of note though, the 109 was not a serial number, but an assembly number (which Amberg was known to do on Gew98s as well) -- note in the photos the 109 appears on the barrel, barrel shroud, under the receiver and on the triggerguard interior.

 

[AndyB]

Sorry i dont known where You get in my info is faked, no its only refurbished in time as the G88 was one of most refurbished of german rifles. As Chris mentioned is rebarelled with S Patrone barell, visible additional inspector proofs on receiver above the older ones.