1915 DWM, matching

[runner]

I promised myself no more rifles except Standard Modells and Polish Mausers, but I faltered.

1915 DWM all matching except safety and firing pin. No post war modifications and original finish. As a bonus the bore is VG. In addition to non matching safety and FP, the only real negative is missing cleaning rod. One thing I found odd, the stock is not numbered internally. I could not find any evidence of a number ever existing. The stock is numbered externally and matching Butt plate as well.

see photos beginning in post #3

 

[Loewe]

Frank, I am glad you slipped on your resolution to restraign your range of collecting!

I really can't make an assessment or offer much of an opinion with these pictures, I did save them to try and flip them back to the original orientation, - which I know wasn't intentional, this flipping seems to occur with some uploads??? Anyway, I would ask for "larger" pictures, the details are hard to make out, these download are rather small and details are hard to discern, but that maybe my laptop, will see tomorrow.

WHat is more important is the angles, the right receiver is critical, better shots of the stock markings, you get the right angles here, but too small and I can;t make comparisons, - the barrel is most important, the application in front of the rearsight is highly unusual for a barrel code, the acceptance will matter here, - while the serial on the barrel looks similar to the receiver something is odd... the use of Bi (Bismarckhütte?) is unusual enough, WMO is next to universal "BS" (BSI) bit 1915 x-block with this BC would unusual or too early for a Berlin firm, for WMO it is highly unusual. I suspect the barrel is a replacement though the barrel serial looks original? These pictures I can;t tell from this view (laptop); but really need good (clear and large) pictures of the RR, both barrel serials, the barrel code and stock acceptance.

I bet this is a re-barrel at least, though better bolt pictures are needed, but it is difficult to be too "authoritative" (certain) from these pictures alone or on the lousy laptop I am using...

** Often re-barrels carry extra acceptance on the RR, especially if higher authority, but clues could be on the stock and made by font comparison, - plus the buttplate. Examination of the barrel markings are important here, (FP variations, acceptance outside of norm, the BC form and pattern, which is not normal, plus comparing receiver-barrel fonts and suffix, that the barrel carries a suffix and it looks elbarate, suggest factory or higher ordnance authority, really would like more and better pictures!)

 

[runner]

Sorry for the earlier inverted photos, working off an iPhone. Let’s try these.

paul, let me know what photos I missed and I will try to get them for you. Until I figure out why I can’t post photos from my desktop, I am limited to using phone as a camera.

 

[runner]

 

[runner]

more pictures

 

[runner]

barrel photos

 

[PrayingMantis]

Nice Gew! DWM not WMO though. Thanks for taking such great photos!

 

[runner]

Stock photos
Note, no Sn inside stock channel and no evidence there ever was one. Stock is correctly numbered externally and on buttplate

 

[runner]

Bolt and bands, the FP is not matching and appears to be from a SA export Mauser. Safety is not matching and lacks an Imperial acceptance.
The bolt does fave firing proof and acceptance stamps on the bottom of bolt root, but they are very light strikes.

 

[runner]

If anyone has an Imperial safety and firing pin #64 they would part with, please let me know. I have lots of Gew 98 and K98k parts to trade or will purchase. Also looking for a cleaning rod and muzzle cover to complete this one.
Thanks

 

[Loewe]

Nice Gew! DWM not WMO though. Thanks for taking such great photos!

Yes, my mistake! For a DWM this is right, for some reason I was under the impression this was a WMO... this is very early for FRS barrel code, right around this was introduced at DWM, - the earliest is a DWM/15 which I bought from BruceK in 2002, 3167/w, which was a very nice bolt mismatcher.

From the earlier pictures it looked totally right for a DWM/15 x-block, but I will save these and make further trends comparisons tomorrow, but the bolt and stock were perfect for this maker-range, WHich as said before, no 1915 is common in this condition, bolt & stock matchers,

 

[Loewe]

Bolt and bands, the FP is not matching and appears to be from a SA export Mauser. Safety is not matching and lacks an Imperial acceptance.
The bolt does fave firing proof and acceptance stamps on the bottom of bolt root, but they are very light strikes.

The bolt body is right, it carries the faint C/A found on the first position RR which is correct for this range, it is a really nice rife now that I could examine the pictures from yesterday, - I will have to check the internal stock marking abnormality, but the acceptance and pattern are right for this maker-date.

** DWM is rather notorious for the weak acceptance, especially on the bolt body, I doubt 20% are solidly clear but even with their faintness the consistency in acceptance can be assured by what remains and outline. DWM is a very fine manufacturer, though WMO is even more consistent and together combine all the qualities the others (arsenals & less experienced newcomers) lack. The quality of the private concerns, even throughout the NS era, which undermined any private initiative or quality distinction through its aggressive state regulation and oversight, its strict regimentation and elimination of private initiative, showed considerable quality disparity with the state owned or managed operations. Though at no time did any Imperial era firm or arsenal lessen quality to the degree of SDP-bcd etc...

 

[Loewe]

One thing I found odd, the stock is not numbered internally. I could not find any evidence of a number ever existing. The stock is numbered externally and matching Butt plate as well.

see photos beginning in post #3

Well, it took some time, but I reviewed 1909-1917 DWM stock trends so far as they exist, - the combination of scarcity of factory stocks, the irregularity in disassembly, coupled with the fact most do not take pictures where markings do not exist all make this a tricky question to determine.

It "seems" that pre-1910 they did serial the stock internally, or the few I viewed seem to make this probable.. However when DWM took up G98 production in 1914 they seemed to have neglected to reintroduce this practice, this clearly was carried on for some time, but there are nearly a dozen that show the handguard serial but avoid the internal stock, often showing BC's and bolt lower flats, so I assume in these cases there was an absence of internal serialing based upon the fact that every 1915 DWM from 1915 either shows this practice or clearly the serial is not present (6 rifles clearly show a lack of serial, a further 8, including my 3167/w show the handguard but not the stock serial and I certainly recorded everything else and it is unimaginable I overlooked a serial if it existed... but this was 2004 before I was trending such things, Cyrus too had a couple that I believe were like this, but some may have been 1916's)

1916, this continues in 1916 and at least 9 show this lack of a serial internally, perhaps half a dozen others show HG but not the stock serial location.

1917 serialing began showing serials internally to the stock, but I misplaced the sheet where I wrote the statists down, I did note that one DWM/16 s-block in Imperial trim, but EWB marked, is the earliest internal serial, whether this is supported by others later, and so far it is not, many rifles in the 16-double suffix clear do not have the serialing, this is probably some postwar modification... though the stock is DWM/16 and the RS is Imperial.

Anyway, I wanted to get this posted today, tomorrow I will seek out my notes on 1917 where if my recollection is correct it does start internal serialing.

 

[runner]

Loewe,
Great information on the stock SN patterns. I went back through my own records and realized that I have DWM 1915 sn 2426c, (I posted this rifle in April 2021) and this rifle also lacks a number in the barrel channel.

Have been very busy on the farm, but I have a 1915 WMO that is “matching”, that I have concerns about. I will try to get pictures up tomorrow, anxious to decipher it’s history.

 

[chrisftk]

Great DWM Frank! Glad you got it. I used to be pretty lukewarm on DWM but have developed a nice appreciation for them... A few years ago I didn't have a single one, now I have six!

 

[Loewe]

Frank, I had to revisit the whole subject again as I couldn't find the cheat sheet I made ... (and worse some earlier comments were in error)

The first rifle in Imperial configuration with an internal serial on an original factory stock is DWM/16 4893/s, however it I believe a postwar or subsequent addition (or recent addition), - fonts differ from HG and it has some postwar features (EWB)

The first unquestioned confirmed stock serialed DWM is DWM/16 9870/x block, clearly this is an authentic rifle and the basis for serialization of DWM G98;s, though it is a little inconvenient place to start because it is alone and not supported until the dd-block of DWM/16. This is the really annoying reality part of the project, clearly photographed internal stock serials are rather elusive, so we do not know how consistent this practice is after the DWM/16 x-block and before the DWM/16 dd-block, and even after this dd-block the confirmed examples are few, only three solidly confirmed DWM/16 (7687/dd; 6569/hh;7388/kk). I did not go into strict review of DWM/17 but several were identified from the first block on... also I noted a DWM/18 (b-block as I recall) that also had the internal stock serial.

So in short it is my opinion, based upon limited observations, that DWM 1914-DWM 1916 up to "about" the x-block DWM G98 stocks will omit the internal serial, though the HG will be serialized in all cases and stock external acceptance is very consistent (not to mention the very distinctive marking pattern, DWM alone identified beech stocks in highly specific manner and had a rather late introduction of new features (grips and TD) which is normal for the more stable makers (pre-war firms & arsenals, they clearly had stock to work through whereas the new comers were the first to introduce beech, grips and TD... )

** I did notice a significant number of potential DWM's owned by fellow collectors here that could help firm up trends and in some cases tighten this range between the s-block and x-block of 1916. If you have a DWM/16 from "around" the s-block through the x-block, or even through the dd-block (to firm up consistency) we, or I anyway, would really like to see whether your stock is internally serialed. (though nearly as important is barrel code, stock acceptance patterns & bolt lower flat acceptance patterns! But this effort is mostly to determine when DWM began internal serialing of the stock)

 

[Loewe]

Great DWM Frank! Glad you got it. I used to be pretty lukewarm on DWM but have developed a nice appreciation for them... A few years ago I didn't have a single one, now I have six!

DWM has a load of interesting things going for them, clearly the most dynamic firm or arsenal that every made the Gewehr98... or for that matter that made rifles and played a truly important role in armament developments, - being the inheritor of the Loewe group armaments division they had strong international ties, both in the US and England, they had a cooperative relationship with laboratories outside of Berlin working with American firms on industrial research, their development and introduction of the MG08 was no accident, Loewe had family links to the English patent holders on the Maxim machine gun in England... which is a story unto itself, - in many ways Loewe and DWM were the most important companies in Germany at the time, they found themselves the subject in AMerican and English technical journals, - leaders in labor relations, technological advances, connections in all the major industrialized countries and very open to technological advances (with considerable influence and share holders of the leading firms in Europe, FN, A-H and supported major inventors in Central Europe)