1917 dwm g98

[Brian75]

Posting for a friend who got this last month in Baltimore at the big antique arms show. Nice, all matching except the cleaning rod. (He also picked up two M98 bayonets which I have posted about in the appropriate forum.)

I am really sorry for the poor pics. Hastily taken. And, again in haste, no picture of the entire rifle! Stupid me. I will get some at a later date and post. Wood is dark and dinged but bore in nice and clean. One pic shows capture trigger guard screw not there but the rifle has both. Really nice been there look to me and my friend is pleased.

Basically, any info on the various markings would be helpful if anyone can provide such info. I have a copy of Dieter Storz's book on loan and we figured out a few things such as the B on the buttstock means the wood is not "nut wood" as Storz or his translator calls it but rather beech (or birch, or unlikely elm).

The "royal monograms" (again, Storz) are pretty munged up. But there is a crown over U the meaning of which I cannot find in Storz.

Thanks!

Brian

 

[Loewe]

Welcome, - a very nice rifle and DWM is more elusive than many of the makers, even with its relatively high production in 1917. DWM had enormous capacity, though less and less was directed at rifle production by this time. They also made the P08 and MG08 and they sacrificed rifle production to those ends starting in 1917.

Anyway, try and do more pictures, the right receiver in particular, DWM was very stable in regards to acceptance so we know what it should be, but for trends to be of value they demand accuracy. The barrel code should be in front of the rear sight sleeve, possibly above the stock line, if you remove the handguard it may be visible.

Beech markings can often appear washed out, faint compared to walnut, which hold strikes well (and takes abuse worse); often it is difficult to distinguish faint markings in beech from light sanding, especially in pictures. Your rifle looks unsanded and original stock wise. It is far less common to lack grips at this point in production, but there are several DWM/17 in this general range lacking them, though often when this is the case they lack the take down ferrule also. Of course more and better pictures are a must to say much more.

The "crowned" letters represent German military inspectors, teams worked under their direction and his authority. These stamps represent acceptance of the part or acceptance of stages of assembly, the meaning varies by placement and position. The right side of the stock is too weak to decipher, though it is almost certainly not C/U which is at the wrist and lower buttstock. They rarely correspond so closely. The wrist and lower typically are consistent in ranges, the RS almost never, but varies between a number of inspectors. (G, O, & W are common inspectors for this position in this range)

Storz book is a poorly translated archival study, it is anything but a collectors guide, more a history and technical study of period documents than a collectors book. It is full of errors, oversights and poorly constructed arguments, - mostly because the man obviously never collected the rifles. Most of the collectors on this forum, even the casual "accumulators" were more competent to write a collectors book. That said, the book is indispensable to any collector for its archival material, snap shots/snip-its/fragments and poorly translated, but all the same it answers many baffling questions regarding the technical aspects of the rifles and its early/wartime history.

Anyway, try and do more pictures, especially the ones I mentioned earlier. A rifle in this condition is a pretty good find, these days any totally original rifle is a good find, so many have been screwed up one way or another, it is good to see such a rifle they way it should look like!

 

[Warrior1354]

A very nice rifle congrats too your friend sir.

And Paul wasn't it in 1917 when DWM suffered alot of Labor and worker strikes that year? I do know late in 1917 they took over Kornbusch and it became part of DWM but they at least kept the Oberspree name. Of course studying anything related too German smalls arms is interesting with DWM! A very interesting year for the company IMO.

 

[heavy10]

Here's another 17 DWM to compare with, a bit earlier than that in the OP. Fully matched down to the rod, 2 piece beech stock without take down discs and no finger grooves.

Would be interested to see more pics of the OP rifle just to compare.

 

[Brian75]

Gents=

Thanks so much for the responses. I promise better pics next time, but that may be a while since my friend and I live a ways from one another.

I think, Loewe, that your assessment is spot on. My friend is more a US Civil War collector but likes Imperial German and has been after a Gew 98 for a while. We go to the big Baltimore show every year and for the past couple years he has been hunting for G98. He's pretty meticulous. This year there were several in Baltimore, including a couple we had seen before (one of which was just sold when we got to the table) and a couple really nice ones (which I did not see) for lots of money. Then there was this one, which we saw early on in the show and returned to a few hours later. The seller said not all matching but upon close examination that was found not to be the case. He kindly shrugged that the rifle came from a collection and accepted a counteroffer and a transaction was completed. The rifle just "felt good" and as noted was something that does not come up often these days. (I am a 98K fan and make that assertion with no experience in Gew 98 matters.) No wool was pulled over anyone's eyes; the price was good, buyer happy, and seller was apprised that the rifle was all matching-except the rod.

BTW, no take down disc and no finger grooves on this one. The butt plate is s/n'd. I think I am remembering these details correctly.

Anyway, more pictures as soon as I can get them, for comparison and for the archives. Thanks again for the help; I have shared the emails with my pal.

Brian

 

[mauser1908]

Great rifle!

DWM produced more Artillery Lugers in 1917 than their combined production in 1914, 15, 16, and 1918. Even with Erfurt 1914 LP08s in the combined total, it's still less than their 1917 production. One of the few years where the four inch military is more uncommon. In terms of artillery production the 1914 Erfurt is the most sought after; their four inch military production was a third of it that year, around 7000 pistols.

 

[deadeye18]

Your friend scored very nicely indeed

 

[Loewe]

It's been 20 years since going to that large Baltimore show, glad to hear it is still around in such a gun hostile state, - though if memory serves it was restricted to pre-WWII? Or something along those lines. That was the best show I had seen since the Great Western's were held in Pomona, California in the 1980's...

As I have told Jordan before, there were major worker strikes throughout Germany early in 1917, mostly in Berlin where they shutdown DWM and Spandau for a time, - the government broke the strikes by threatening to withdraw deferments from any worker absent from the factories. Nothing like the prospect of military service in the trenches to inspire workers...

Oberspree became fully owned by DWM in 1917, probably seen as a remedy to the production allocation problem. Oberspree takes over all rifle production and DWM is free to concentrate on P08/MG08.