Another Interesting S84/98 Behoerden Variation

[pwcosol]

As reported in my 2020 SOS report, I picked up a pair of S84/98 behoerden bayonets. The first was a blued "narrow-blade" pattern, which is well documented. The second is much more unusual. The sides of pommel and associated grips are diagonally cut, the ricasso area is longer than a typical S84/98 T3, and the scabbard has a throat neck which is secured by a screw above the frog stud. The bayonet and scabbard both bear a matching serial number of 5288, but there are no additional markings. The finish is a very nice blue, and construction is overall excellent. Of note, the bayonet has neither muzzle ring nor flash guard. I have seen a larger, more robust version in this pattern made on S98/05 tooling and finished "in the white", which is totally unmarked (but attributed to EuF Horster). Thoughts?

 

[AndyB]

Interesting pieces, the slanted pommel could be Export piece, i assume the crossguard is thiner as normal. The mouth piece looks like a Railways pieces but here in old manner oriented screw.Very long ricasso which would expect a long blade more as 254mm, the barell ring could be removed in time of rework? Is the pommel one piece with blade as S84/98? thanks. b.r.Andy

 

[pwcosol]

Andy:

The blade looks very much like that of the "narrow-blade" bayonet also in photos (except longer ricasso). Scabbard is not narrow-pattern by actual width, but more like standard S84/98 T3 (except for throat & retaining screw position. I do believe the crossguard is also slightly thinner (I will check with micrometer). Pommel very closely matches that on the narrow-blade behoerden. Not positive about the muzzlering, but if there ever was one on the crossguard, it was removed at the factory before the bayonet was assembled and blued. I haven't attempted to take the grips off, but do believe the tang is one piece with the pommel. I see no external evidence of the tang being "spliced" onto the pommel. It is a unusual one to be sure!

 

[AndyB]

Narow pieces has a 24mm width of blade when i remember correctly, with 5288 its a really high number,it could be prepared for export but later added to a Behoerden contract, the scabbard and mouth piece looks like export M1935 to Brazil. I believe the bayonet is of similar period, should be meassured thickness of guard as the M1935 looks like have a thiner crossguard. As the mouth piece is not extra good fitted, it could be shortage of Brazil M1935 scabbard.the grips looks like replacement, is the wood nutwood? Anyway the Brazil M35 has a larger screws so new grips would be needed there, the cleaning hole is long. By M1935 has a longer ricasso as normal S84/98 blade.
When used shorter blade profile, removing the barell ring and new grips with small screws, reblueing and shortage of scabbard so no problem to use as Behoerden modell.

 

[pwcosol]

Andy:

Thanks for this excellent information. I spoke with Carl Winkler and David Hughes at the SOS and showed each the unusual behoerden S84/98. Karl said he thought it might be a Argentine M1935. David later looked it over (Argentine bayonets being his specialty) and said it was very similar. However, the Argentine M1935 has a "RA" marking on the ricasso. They are also scarce, and when found are in very poor, well-used condition, so he was unsure. Then I remembered having a copy of Bayonets de la Republica Argentina by M. Suffriti & O. Albino. Attached is a photo of the reference to this bayonet. The Argentine M1935 appears to be as close to my example as I have seen. The M35 in the photo has the grips attached either by rivets or unslotted screwbolts. The scabbard throat may also be attached either by a rivet or very small screw as well. The description states the origin of the M1935 was "probably Germany". So, it looks like your thoughts that my bayonet was likely a export contract overrun, and with slight modification, sold in Germany, is very likely what happened.

 

[AndyB]

There is a high possibility of Argentinian M33 or M35 too, should be looked for details in Mauser production!!, the RA were stamped on one ricasso and screws were large as by normal WW1 S84/98.Should be measured the details of crossguard to compare it with brazil M1935 sample. b.r.Andy
Mauser production for Buenos Aires Police as M33 is confirmed.

 

[pwcosol]

Here are the measurements I took of the Brazilian M1935 & S84/98 behoerden:

Brazilian:
Crossguard thickness: 7.5mm
Blade thickness: 5.2mm
Blade height @ ricasso: 25mm
Distance between grip screws (center-to-center): 44.2mm


Behoerden S84/98:
Crossguard thickness: 7.5mm
Blade thickness: 5.2mm
Blade height @ ricasso: 24mm
Distance between grip screws (center-to-center): 43.5mm

So, two measurements are identical and two are off by 1mm<. Since the Brazilian was designed for the S98/05 grip screwbolts, and tang is spliced into the pommel (behoerden is solid tang), it does not seem a reworked/modified M1935 was the basis for the Behoerden S84/98 in question...

 

[AndyB]

Thanks for sharing dimmension, yes it looks like different configuration as brazilian M1935, anyway the scabbards of argentinian M33 and M35 and brazilian M35 are similar made, there is one piece pommel -tang on Behoerden piece? I have only few pictures of argentinian bayonets, so dont know how they were constructed.
24mm blade width speaks for "narow" modell.
b.r.Andy
Compared the normal S84/98 III, WaA proofed
thickness of blade 5,4mm
thickness of crossguard 7,5mm
distance of screws 44mm
so Brazil M1935 has identical cg thickness and distance of screws as normal S84/98 only thinner blade 5,2mm