bcd 43 "o" block

[Gerard]

I want to share one of my recent additions to my collection. This is a great example of a 1943 gustloff assembled rifle. Comments are welcome.

 

[ditch68]

Very nice, the finish is great. I love that stock.

Jeff

 

[Gerard]

Thanks Jeff, sorry for the delay, had to do family stuff, eat dinner, etc- Here are some more.

Very nice, the finish is great. I love that stock.

Jeff

 

[Gerard]

more shots..

 

[Gerard]

Notice the interesting "k" maker coded subcontract bolt release, which I could not find any reference to. Also has the standard "c" stock with "f" maker marked lug. Overall it's a very clean rifle. I'll post photos of the inside stock numbers, which are matching, as soon as I process them.

 

[Gerard]

I couldn't find my photos of the internal stock numbers, but here are ones I got from the seller when I bought it.

 

[Loewe]

k= Luck & Wagner Suhl, one of the few makers from Suhl to be inspected by WaA4, along with BSW-Gustloff Werke Suhl.

This rifle once was owned by Jim Oxley, sold in January 2005, these pics are much better too. Jim has a rather notorious reputation in some collectors circles, linked to a few stinkers, a couple really bad ones.

This one looks good, better than the 2005 pics which worried me on a couple points, but ole Jim was like that guy in NY that some get the drawers in a bunch over, - it is hit or miss buying from him, he sold good and garbage, and one of the nicest dou/43 I ever owned came from Jim Oxley, and it was a wonderful rifle.

How about the full barrel code if you can? Is their a weird logo or box shape character anywhere on the barrel?

Notice the interesting "k" maker coded subcontract bolt release, which I could not find any reference to. Also has the standard "c" stock with "f" maker marked lug. Overall it's a very clean rifle. I'll post photos of the inside stock numbers, which are matching, as soon as I process them.

 

[a j s]

Great rifle,hope Hambone puts it in the picture sticky

 

[Hambone]

Nice rifle Gerard, and good pics, thanks for posting it. Pic stickied for reference.

Yes ole Oxley was something. When we started critiquing his auctions after a few guys got supremely burned he disappeared. Gerard got a good one though.

 

[Gerard]

Thanks Simon and Hambone for the info. This is the second time I have heard the name "Jim Oxley". Sounds like a real character. Anyway, the rifle is beautiful and fully matched, untouched, etc. Mauser99 saw it at Allentown and we tried to go through it saying the alphabet with each subcontractor letter code we could find. It was like alphabet soup. Anyway, here are 2 more photos, close up of the stock lug and also the "e" marked bayonet lug. Also, wanted to note that in this year, there is no eagle/H mark on the buttstock. Enjoy.

 

[Gerard]

Simon, the FN barrel is marked "ch 63783" and yes, the barrel underside has a shield with "cyw" in it. It's is also FN waffenamt marked e/140. Here's a shot.

 

[Loewe]

Thanks, - is there a "43" between the ch 63783 and cyw shield?

FN was a very interesting barrel finisher, with huge variation to markings and different steel suppliers, some of the blanks seem semi-finished by their elaborate markings.

Simon, the FN barrel is marked "ch 63783" and yes, the barrel underside has a shield with "cyw" in it. It's is also FN waffenamt marked e/140. Here's a shot.

 

[mauser99]

cool

I see some tool marks there I'm guessing from the jig that threads in the barrel ? As it apears newer than higher than the lathe marks. Bcd's are quite interesting in the 41-43 period. They get kinda vanilla in 44.

 

[Loewe]

"e" is Köhler, and they were a key component supplier for Gustloff Werke, and part of the Saxony Group. They were a rather famous sewing machine company that was active before the First World War, and seemed to do reasonably well in the rough interwar period. Like many sewing machine & bicycle companies they played key sub-contractor roles in the wars, and actually most rifle firms are well known for bicycles and tinker around the edges of such things as sewing machines, during tough times.

Simson, CGH & Steyr were well known for bicycles, Simson and Steyr even made motorcycles and automobiles (In Simson's case at least I think they used suppliers for many of the parts, and Steyr acquired much from their 1929-1931 mergers and reorganization- and their connections with the state.)

Anyway, here are 2 more photos, close up of the stock lug and also the "e" marked bayonet lug.

 

[Loewe]

I agree, but I think they are really neat 1939-1942, as that is where you see the most curious things? Some really rare barrels only show up early, like the Dutch AI (guo), very rare barrel maker only found on Gustloff, and weird combinations, and sometimes early waffenamt use for Ruhrstahl and FN (ones that lasted very short periods). Plus the Saxony Group firms only really used codes and waffenamts early on, later usually dropping the waffenamt.

In 1943-1944 you can find Gustloff components, like barrels and stocks, the barrels are more defined to when they came out, but the stocks are super hard to find, and seem to be really intermittent.
While 1944-45 is very vanilla, you can find sprinkles of chocolate with a bcd made barrel or two 1943-1944, but they are not common at all. (Ruhrstahl and FN were their largest supplier for barrels, which is odd in that Gustloff made a lot of bigger barrels, and their Suhl facility was a key barrel maker, earlier 98k & MG barrels and then MG barrels only.)

I see some tool marks there I'm guessing from the jig that threads in the barrel ? As it apears newer than higher than the lathe marks. Bcd's are quite interesting in the 41-43 period. They get kinda vanilla in 44.

 

[mauser99]

simson / gustloff bikes

not sure how clear these will be. 1st. an early simson werke ad for motor bikes. Later a gustloff add for the same bikes now bearing the gusloff logo. This second logo I had printed on a t-shirt. Both these images are on the simson web site. Simson is still in buisness.
I can only assume the gustloff ad was in one of the many german magazines of the day.

 

[Loewe]

That is pretty cool, I have a pretty good collection of catalogs and advertising for Simson-BSW also, the avatar is off a 1939 bicycle price list, and attached is a 1936 catalog for a motorbike. Surprisingly, I have found Simson-BSW easier to find than Loewe material, but I snag what I can wherever possible.

I hear Simson went out of business? The last of their buildings being torn down a few years back (not even sure if they were original pre-45 buildings though, as they looked kind of commie modern in the pics, but saw an article on it), I have several catalogs with drawings of their buildings, a great many invoices, but the most impressive of all was an Imperial era drawing an advanced collector showed me recently. I will use it in a future article but it is super rare to find pre-1914 Simson paper (1920-1930's is fairly common if you look hard enough, a lot easier than Loewe stuff anyway)

 

[mauser99]

maybe so.

I have not looked recently. They basicly were only selling vespa looking scooters. But all the history was on the bio page of the web site. I found the site searching for simson info. There is not much out there.

 

[RavenOps]

I was able to purchase this rifle from Gerard in 2015 and since it was already a "Pic Sticky" I thought I would add some additional photographs for the file.

 

[RavenOps]

Additional Photos.