BNZ 45 at gun show today

[ekafant]

Hello all. Was at a local gun show today, and there was a reputable seller there that had a pretty nice BNZ 45 K98 for sale. Looked pretty decent, not messed with, but did have a milled floorplate, which I assumed was not correct, but being late war, I guess anything goes. Everything did match on the gun, but I did not buy it. I have his info., and still might try and make a deal on it if it does not sell at the show. The floorplate was my only concern, everything else looked correct. Are there really any set "rules" on these late K98s. My only real reference is Law's book, which cant be 100% I am sure. Opinions please? On a side note, another seller had a Venezuelan police carbine in 7mm, very short barreled carbine which I almost bought, but the rifling at the last 1 to 2 inchs was worn, maybe from too much cleaning. Are there any real repairs for anything like that. I have heard that you can get a barrel relined, but is that realistic or worth it?

 

[Col.Klink]

How much was he asking? Also, was that milled floor-plate numbered to the gun or un-numbered? It would seem odd that a milled floor-plate would show up on a 1945 rifle, but even if it were not correct that is an easy part to swap out for what would be a correct un-numbered stamped floor-plate.

 

[Gerard]

Hi, please go to the "Kriegsmodell book" section of the forum. I know that Mike and Bruce don't have many left, but try to get a copy of the book. The information is beyond value if you want to start collecting k98s. ALso, the color photos will keep you drooling for months and months (I still am). The book is a must have, get it before it starts climbing on the secondary market.

 

[GungHo]

Hi, please go to the "Kriegsmodell book" section of the forum. I know that Mike and Bruce don't have many left, but try to get a copy of the book. The information is beyond value if you want to start collecting k98s. ALso, the color photos will keep you drooling for months and months (I still am). The book is a must have, get it before it starts climbing on the secondary market.

I just received a copy of kriegsmodell and I of course recommend having a copy, but I had to order it from a private party reseller from amazon.com, for they are out of stock "here", having missed the boat by two months. Its worth having to be sure, I paid double, and am glad I did. I'm no expert, but late war, they used alot of previously rejected parts, so a mismatched floorlate could be possible from what've I've seen and read of, but its a personal call according to price of item and condition claimed.

 

[mauser99]

Bnz45

Go to the pic sticky thread pinned in this sub-forum. There are pleanty of color shots of bnz45's in all there glory. They are not that difficult to find. I think every G.I. in austria must of brought one home. Condtion should be new or near new. A milled floor plate would be a rough milled type that was blank or maybe e/77 or e623 or with just a "1" stamped on it. No serial *. Only the bolt was serial numbered on these.. Wood is the key thing and can be laminate or solid walnut. Price would max out around 2500.00ish
And condition would affect price. Hope this helps.. I had a byf45 no letter block with a rough machined blank floorplate.

 

[Gerard]

I thought I just saw one on gunbroker for around $85. I would check there

 

[Pisgah]

So, what was the asking price on this bnz 45? Concerning the parts used, it would be more correct to say that previously unused parts were used in their assembly. I don't know that I would agree that any large scale use of previously rejected parts went into the effort, although a few wouldn't be too shocking. Numbered parts on a bnz 45 include the barrel shank, the bolt body, the gas shield, the cocking piece, the firing pin, the rear sight leaf, and the rear sight ramp. A milled floorplate would be possible, just less likely than stamped. Such a part would likely be unmarked, e/623, or e/77 and also unnumbered. It would likely be phosphated (but could be blued, particularly if the rifle is S block or earlier) and should match the overall patina of the rifle. I wouldn't just replace a part to make the rifle more typical. If it really is a mismatched, non-original part that's a different story. Little unique items like a milled part where a stamped one would be more usual are what make such a rifle interesting. Plenty of matching, original rifles have been screwed up by uninformed owners trying to make them "more" original by swapping out seemingly mismatched parts for what seemed like more correct ones (e.g. byf/svw marked triggerguards on a bnz 45).

 

[ekafant]

So, what was the asking price on this bnz 45? Concerning the parts used, it would be more correct to say that previously unused parts were used in their assembly. I don't know that I would agree that any large scale use of previously rejected parts went into the effort, although a few wouldn't be too shocking. Numbered parts on a bnz 45 include the barrel shank, the bolt body, the gas shield, the cocking piece, the firing pin, the rear sight leaf, and the rear sight ramp. A milled floorplate would be possible, just less likely than stamped. Such a part would likely be unmarked, e/623, or e/77 and also unnumbered. It would likely be phosphated (but could be blued, particularly if the rifle is S block or earlier) and should match the overall patina of the rifle. I wouldn't just replace a part to make the rifle more typical. If it really is a mismatched, non-original part that's a different story. Little unique items like a milled part where a stamped one would be more usual are what make such a rifle interesting. Plenty of matching, original rifles have been screwed up by uninformed owners trying to make them "more" original by swapping out seemingly mismatched parts for what seemed like more correct ones (e.g. byf/svw marked triggerguards on a bnz 45).

This reply pretty much hit it head on. I think I could get if for $1,100.00. The floorplate was not numbered. It just had a waffenamt stamped on it, e/77 I believe. It was blued, and was an S block. It did have a stamped svw triggerguard on it, and the bolt and bolt parts mentioned were matching. The patina seemed very correct. Does that price seem reasonable?

 

[Pisgah]

This reply pretty much hit it head on. I think I could get if for $1,100.00. The floorplate was not numbered. It just had a waffenamt stamped on it, e/77 I believe. It was blued, and was an S block. It did have a stamped svw triggerguard on it, and the bolt and bolt parts mentioned were matching. The patina seemed very correct. Does that price seem reasonable?

If original condition, matching, and unsanded $1,100 is a very good price. An unsanded (excellent condition, original, etc.) bnz 45 Kriegsmodell stock with bands/screws would likely sell for $1,000 by itself. Snatch it and post some photos.

 

[ekafant]

I was able to get a few pictures from the sellers website. Opinions please!

 

[Pisgah]

First off, the stock is wrong. The photos are mediocre but from what I can see, I think the bolt is likely bad also. Safety shouldn't be numbered either. Ironically, the floorplate may be one of the few things that is right about it (and I wouldn't want to make the call on it based on these photos). It isn't worth what the seller is asking and that is why it has been offered for a while.

 

[ekafant]

First off, the stock is wrong. The photos are mediocre but from what I can see, I think the bolt is likely bad also. Safety shouldn't be numbered either. Ironically, the floorplate may be one of the few things that is right about it (and I wouldn't want to make the call on it based on these photos). It isn't worth what the seller is asking and that is why it has been offered for a while.

Thanks for the replies. The photos arent that great I agree. What is the problem with the stock that you see, and what problem do you see with the bolt other than the safety?

 

[Pisgah]

Thanks for the replies. The photos arent that great I agree. What is the problem with the stock that you see, and what problem do you see with the bolt other than the safety?

bnz 45 S block rifles are Kriegsmodells and not in standard stocks. bnz 45 safeties were unnumbered. The bolt flat pix are mediocre but to the extent I can see, I don't like what I see. Typical S and T block bolt sleeves are crude to the point of looking like they are unfinished. This rifle has likely been offered for a year without selling. No accident there.

 

[Gerard]

EEEEKKK !!! (sorry, had to react to the photos)

Looks like a Russian capture to me. If so, it's waaaaay overpriced.

 

[ekafant]

EEEEKKK !!! (sorry, had to react to the photos)

Looks like a Russian capture to me. If so, it's waaaaay overpriced.

Everyone, thanks for the replies. It is a bit of a minefield out there. Gerard, the pictures are darker than what I saw. Was more of a grey, phosphate finish on the parts.

 

[Gerard]

Everyone, thanks for the replies. It is a bit of a minefield out there. Gerard, the pictures are darker than what I saw. Was more of a grey, phosphate finish on the parts.

Actually, it was the stock I was responding too, my attempt at humor. When you see that kind of unnatural color on the stock, it usually deserves more looking into to see what is going on. In this case, based on the photos, to me it looks like a stock that was stained, stripped crudely and maybe even oiled afterward. Could just be that they didn't get all the stain/lacquer off.