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Contents under issued G/K43 stock buttplate trapdoor?

Ross_badger

Ross_badger

Member
As I am eagerly awaiting the revised edition of Hitler's Garands, I have a question regarding G/K43s. What was typically inside the stock under the buttplate trapdoor when the rifle was issued?

Thanks, Ross
 
Wrapped in brown/tan/orange wax paper: firing pin, firing pin extension, extractor with screw/spring. And, a small manual.
 
A manual, oiler, and a spare parts kit wrapped in wax paper. The kit had extra bolt parts: a firing pin, extension, and extractor parts.
 
RyanE said:
A manual, oiler, and a spare parts kit wrapped in wax paper. The kit had extra bolt parts: a firing pin, extension, and extractor parts.
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Just quoting from Hitler’s Garands, page 200: “G/K43s were probably not issued from the factories with an oiler. Neither were these very frequently stowed in the butt for use at the front, judging from the very few rifles observed with oil stains inside their butt traps.”. The information does say that the designers clearly anticipated that an oiler would be stowed and the butt trap was bored out for one. But, the oilers issued with the cleaning kits were too long. It also states special oilers for these rifles were made and they also decided to bore out the trap a little longer, so not too sure why an oiler would not have been issued with the rifles? Key words in the above quote is “probably not”. Maybe new info has come out since then and we’ll get more than “probably not”.

So, if you add an oiler, right now’s information would suggest that it did not come from the factory like that.
 
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oilers

I have been collecting these for over 35 years. Only about 5 direct vet buys with goodies in stock. Never an oiler..
 
Thanks for the replies. I've seen a picture of a "for sale" G43 with the trapdoor open and inside are the links of the pull-through cleaning chain, suggesting that an RG-34 like cleaning kit was supposed to be inside. I guess that was someone's idea of what "should have" been inside.

BTW, what would a complete "as issued" kit go for these days on the market?
 
Tiger 2 Tank said:
Just quoting from Hitler’s Garands, page 200: “G/K43s were probably not issued from the factories with an oiler. Neither were these very frequently stowed in the butt for use at the front, judging from the very few rifles observed with oil stains inside their butt traps.”. The information does say that the designers clearly anticipated that an oiler would be stowed and the butt trap was bored out for one. But, the oilers issued with the cleaning kits were too long. It also states special oilers for these rifles were made and they also decided to bore out the trap a little longer, so not too sure why an oiler would not have been issued with the rifles? Key words in the above quote is “probably not”. Maybe new info has come out since then and we’ll get more than “probably not”.

So, if you add an oiler, right now’s information would suggest that it did not come from the factory like that.
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You are probably right. I need to check mine and see if an oiler fits in any of them. They look like they are cut for an oiler so I assumed they were originally stuffed in there with the kits. :googlie
 
RyanE said:
You are probably right. I need to check mine and see if an oiler fits in any of them. They look like they are cut for an oiler so I assumed they were originally stuffed in there with the kits. :googlie
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Definitely you could easily think they did come with the rifles. Who knows what new info may be coming out with the new book.
 
Ross_badger said:
Thanks for the replies. I've seen a picture of a "for sale" G43 with the trapdoor open and inside are the links of the pull-through cleaning chain, suggesting that an RG-34 like cleaning kit was supposed to be inside. I guess that was someone's idea of what "should have" been inside.

BTW, what would a complete "as issued" kit go for these days on the market?
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If you reply with the serial number of the rifle and who made it (like this example for instance: G.43 ac44 #1234a), I might have prior info on it as I keep serial number history of these rifles (all three manufacturers). If I don’t, it’ll be a new entry in my listings, which is always helpful.

Lots of things were kept in these rifle’s pockets. Maybe the chain was left in there from the war? Who knows.
 
Tiger 2 Tank said:
If you reply with the serial number of the rifle and who made it (like this example for instance: G.43 ac44 #1234a), I might have prior info on it as I keep serial number history of these rifles (all three manufacturers). If I don’t, it’ll be a new entry in my listings, which is always helpful.

Lots of things were kept in these rifle’s pockets. Maybe the chain was left in there from the war? Who knows.
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I don't have the serial number of the rifle that I saw with the chain, but I do have the serial number of the rifle that I just purchased and am waiting for delivery :)

It is K.43 qve45 #8456l

Any info on it would be helpful and/or you can put it in your listings and I'll post pics of it here when it comes in.
 
Ross_badger said:
I don't have the serial number of the rifle that I saw with the chain, but I do have the serial number of the rifle that I just purchased and am waiting for delivery :)

It is K.43 qve45 #8456l

Any info on it would be helpful and/or you can put it in your listings and I'll post pics of it here when it comes in.
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Hello,
First report on it and thanks. Can’t wait to see the photos as I’ll add the details to this listing. The rifles known around yours are as follows:

K.43 qve45 #8321 L (barreled receiver only)
K.43 qve45 #8650 L

Looks like yours has a good possibility of having a Durofol hand guard as many around yours is reported to have had one.
 
Tiger 2 Tank said:
Hello,
First report on it and thanks. Can’t wait to see the photos as I’ll add the details to this listing. The rifles known around yours are as follows:

K.43 qve45 #8321 L (barreled receiver only)
K.43 qve45 #8650 L

Looks like yours has a good possibility of having a Durofol hand guard as many around yours is reported to have had one.
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It does have a Durofol hand guard, and I can't wait to get it. Here is one of the pictures from my friend who I bought it from:
 

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I have always found it interesting that a rifle need be issued with extra parts and manual. Did the Garand and SVT40 need them? Do they need a shooters kit to shoot today? The G43 would be last of the three I would want in combat IMO.

They are an interesting piece of history but not what I would want in combat. Having fired 20 M1 Garands and at least 10 SVTs, nothing ever failed/broke or did not cycle. The snipers I have fired are on par with the average SVT sniper I have fired accuracy wise but not on par with a Garand. In fairness, I have fired at least 5 G/K43s unaltered without a shooters kit in the 80s and 90s. I would not try it now.

The Germans were behind on semi-autos and not doing it well IMO. The gas system is not unlike the SVT but they forgot the gas adjustment. The Garand was too strong to worry about. To pay what these sale for now, and to shoot them, is not a good idea. Not the same rule with the SVT and M1 Garand. It amazes me the Germans could not come up with a better semi-auto, although the FG 42 select fire may be the best of the bunch in combat, but that is the way it was.
 
mike radford said:
I have always found it interesting that a rifle need be issued with extra parts and manual. Did the Garand and SVT40 need them? Do they need a shooters kit to shoot today? The G43 would be last of the three I would want in combat IMO.

They are an interesting piece of history but not what I would want in combat. Having fired 20 M1 Garands and at least 10 SVTs, nothing ever failed/broke or did not cycle. The snipers I have fired are on par with the average SVT sniper I have fired accuracy wise but not on par with a Garand. In fairness, I have fired at least 5 G/K43s unaltered without a shooters kit in the 80s and 90s. I would not try it now.

The Germans were behind on semi-autos and not doing it well IMO. The gas system is not unlike the SVT but they forgot the gas adjustment. The Garand was too strong to worry about. To pay what these sale for now, and to shoot them, is not a good idea. Not the same rule with the SVT and M1 Garand. It amazes me the Germans could not come up with a better semi-auto, although the FG 42 select fire may be the best of the bunch in combat, but that is the way it was.
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Me, I just collect them and don’t shoot these. Yep, they were behind on the semi auto main battle rifle area. But, where they lacked there, they did well with the MP-44 development and the later ones that eventually came to be with the Heckler and Koch rifles. The conditions in which the Germans were building these didn’t help the parts breakage problem; slave labor sabotage (heat treating problems of over heating and under heating), lack of quality steal and hurried development are just a few things that really hurt these rifles. Also, I have heard that the ammo they used then isn’t the same as the ammo now, which destroys these rifles without the shooter’s kit. I may be wrong, but I have always explained that “by design”, the G/K.43 rifles were superior.....again, “by design”. In reality, from the problems mentioned above, they were the worst. Imagine this: Use the same wood used to make a Garand stock and make a G/K.43 stock with it. Use the same metals used in making Garand rifles and make G/K.43 rifles-minus the slave labor sabotage, and I think you would have a superior G/K.43 system. There’s something about that 10 round detachable box 8mm round magazine that I think would out do the 8 round 30.06 clip from a Garand. Just my thoughts.
 
Tiger 2 Tank said:
Also, I have heard that the ammo they used then isn’t the same as the ammo now, which destroys these rifles without the shooter’s kit.
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This goes for the M1 Garand as well. For these rifles it’s the case of the operating rod bending when using modern high pressure 30-06. There are aftermarket gas plugs, either ported or adjustable, to aid in lessening the gas pressure from modern ammo. Plus there are various ammo manufacturers that produce M1 specific ammo designed off of the original M2 ball ammo specs. So American weapons aren’t out of the woods with this one... Most people say this is an actual problem, others say it’s nonsense, but I’d rather be safe than sorry.
 
Zeppelin5000 said:
This goes for the M1 Garand as well. For these rifles it’s the case of the operating rod bending when using modern high pressure 30-06. There are aftermarket gas plugs, either ported or adjustable, to aid in lessening the gas pressure from modern ammo. Plus there are various ammo manufacturers that produce M1 specific ammo designed off of the original M2 ball ammo specs. So American weapons aren’t out of the woods with this one... Most people say this is an actual problem, others say it’s nonsense, but I’d rather be safe than sorry.
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I completely forgot about the op rod problems. I did not know that about the modern vs. wartime 30.06 ammo.
 
The g/k43 has several small easily lost parts, so having spares makes sense. The free floating firing pin, extension and extractor are quite stout. (The extractor spring/pin being the weak points). Same goes for the Mp44 series.
 
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