"Dealerization" of K98k bayos

[bruce98k]

Thats a new term I penned to describe how a hobby gets ruined by dealers trying to maximize profit.
Its one thing to buy and sell and make a little on the turn.
But to excessively gouge the price is beyond comprehension.

I just did a scan on GB and some of these idiots are pushing near 1000.00US for a 300.00 blade.

Just sad again...sorry to all my blade collecting brothers but this is even worse than whats going on with K98ks.

 

[grimlin13]

What really sucks is, some new collector that has no clue as to the actual worth of said bayonet, has the funds to make the purchase. Thinks that because the asking price is so high, makes that bayonet even more collectable and valuable. A new collector I know, sent me pics of a nice "dress" bayonet he just got. It turned out to be an S84/98 III that looked like someone at Mitchell's Mausers took a whizzer to. I tell him what he has, and he is in a bit of denial about it. He starts asking me about the serial numbers and WaA stamps and if there is any way to tell if said bayonet was used by the SS. I ask him if the seller made claims that this bayonet was an SS bayonet. He said no, but I think other wise. Why else the SS questions? I could tell he was trying to salvage something good out of his new bayonet. I told him the cold hard truth, that his bayonet had very little value if any to a collector or for resale. Of all the stuff I explained and said to him, what got through to him was, the fact that no SS soldier would ever do what was done to this bayonet. Period. I personally think buyer got fed BS SS story. He ate that steaming pile up. Gladly forked over way too much cash and has to live with it. His response to the lack of collectability, value or resale. " It is ok. I did not pay much for it and I keep everything I buy." The new generation of collector is here and we cannot help them all.

 

[mauser99]

GB and ebay are aflood with overpriced crap... you scan and do your weekly searches and and you see the same overpriced crap week after week.. Only thing that will stop this is charging a more hefty re-listing fee so it hurts their pocketbooks.. Other than that these sites which were auction sites are now just high price point sucker bait chum ponds.

The highest prices paid for k98's bayos has been ebay with some record prices paid on common late war bayonets in high condition.. No dealer help needed IMHO..
When you go to shows its not un-common to see small guys selling them still in the 2-300 range..

I made the mistake of selling all mine before they reached the 1k range...Aarrgg...

Guys like Whittman and other dagger nuts must shake their heads seeing a comabt bayonet out price pointing a Heer or second model luft dagger..

 

[Hambone]

Guys like Whittman and other dagger nuts must shake their heads seeing a comabt bayonet out price pointing a Heer or second model luft dagger..

IMHO, these are the guys who destroyed dagger collecting. It's the same thing that destroyed CW collecting. It's the same thing that is trying to destroy K98k collecting and K98k bayonet collecting. It's carnie profiteering cheesy conduct which is only interested in exploitation of a hobby for money. These are simply all my humble opinions.

 

[pzjgr]

Meh, I've stopped actively looking for 98k bayo's, prices are ridiculous...if I stumble onto one thats good and priced right, I'll snag it. I doesn't help I'll generally only buy matching bayo's...

I now actively look for Jap bayo's, a ton of variants and makers, and still relatively priced low, although these are climbing too.

Picked up 4 nice examples at Tulsa, one for the boy, 3 for myself...including 2 nice Jinsen's one beautiful nicely blued earlier war, and a cool last ditch in a squared of wood scabbard...

 

[Slash]

None of this surprises me even in the slightest. HJ Fahrtenmesser are consistently priced at over $1000 on the "big dealer" web-sites. Keep in mind there were more than 20 million members of the HJ. Personally, I can't believe it took this long ......

 

[Warrior1354]

This is the only bayonet that I have bought in the past couple months. Surprisingly it was quite reasonable at the ogca show last fall. Priced with nice frog $250. I still try to actively hunt for these types of bayonets but even at the SOS show no deals to be had. Unless you wanted to spend $700 for a matching bayonet set in average condition.

 

[stuckus]

Things like this could not be good for the future of the hobby. How can teenagers and young men get interested in collecting such expensive things? when
I was younger, WWI and II rifles and bayonets were cheap enough for kids to buy and use, so I bought them. I did not buy expensive stuff back then, never got interested in it mainly due to cost, and to this day I am still not interested in those things—I still like the same old stuff I could afford back then.

 

[DaveDavis]

The hobby will crash and burn, it is as simple as that.

 

[mauser99]

On the up side..... if we think this will destroy us all .. MM bayonets are very cheap under 100 bucks easily and sometimes complete with nice frogs and wont sell. Dress bayonets also are very cheap same price point and lots of variations.. As I have pointed out over and over you don't need to be rich to get into this hobby you just cant focus on the expensive items.. We can All look at and lust for a Gull wing M.B. and the chances of owning one are nil .. But, that doesn't stop any one of us from owning a car.. The matching minty k98k bayonet market has been ticking up for years its not an instant price hike. Supply and demand. I recall guys saying some people were nuts for paying 5-600 for a phosphate rivet grip example. Now we are seeing mint blued examples bringing that.. The people paying the prices are part of the problem. As soon as it stops the prices will adjust. Simple economics.

Bruce's point I feel is his same point with k98k's we now have to compete with dealers to buy items publicly which in the past was done privately as they always got their stuff from somewhere.... My2cents

 

[mrfarb]

As money is worth less, durable goods are worth more. People with lots of money are looking for somewhere to put that money, people who have no idea what the past market is come in and just start from zero - meaning current prices are the base. Hint, it’s not going to get better.

 

[pwcosol]

Excellent responses all. The thing is I have heard the current situation being discussed by collectors a few times before, over the course of the last 40 years. Periods of price increases and declines seem to be cyclical. This is often due to supply and demand issues or tied to either a economic upturn or downturn. One must also consider the "political winds" during these times as well...which we have observed most recently in 2008 and again in 2020. Perhaps most frustrating in this current environment, there is more information available to the novice collector than ever before. Excellent books have been written, which were always sought out by the collecting fraternity. However, now we have online forums and other platforms. Online videos are also available (albeit a number of these are questionable in their assessments or just self-serving advertisements for the hosts). One troublesome report is that a sizeable contingent of young people (starting with the "Millennials") just do not like to read books. They resort to getting their information via the internet and seem to take things for granted.

Walk this path and you are bound to get fleeced. Everyone pays a certain amount of dues in their quest for enlightenment as a collector, but some are just destined to pay a lot more than others. Lastly, there is a degree of "instant wealth" in recent decades. All one has to do is come up with their own "Pet Rock" idea (remember this one!) and you can be a millionaire. I think there are a few of these types running loose as well, which is skewing the norm as to some of the outrageous sales prices seen recently. Just remember, fools and their money are soon parted. In regards to Bruce's mention of the term "Dealerization", this is also becoming a bigger factor. "Collector/dealers" have long been around and there is bit of this in most all of us. However, now it seems the emphasis is on a number of "DEALER/collectors". These guys are mercenary in their approach to acquire anything or everything they can to make a buck on. Some range from coast to coast now in their search. Finally, the nature of large, well advertised nationwide auctions, has been leading the charge on increasing prices for at least 20 years. Much of what we see now started here...

 

[Aaron]

As money is worth less, durable goods are worth more. People with lots of money are looking for somewhere to put that money, people who have no idea what the past market is come in and just start from zero - meaning current prices are the base. Hint, it’s not going to get better.

See this doesn't make sense to me, I have been hearing this a lot but lets imagine the dollar fails and the economy collapses. People aren't going to trade you goods like fuel or food or water for your german ww2 collection. Heck even if inflation just continues to get bad, shipping to other markets with other currancies is so expensive I doubt it will ever be worth it.

 

[Aaron]

Prices are rising so fast the new collectors don't know what is and isn't a good deal.
Canteens are over 100usd
Breadbags I have no freaking clue
Y-straps are like 3-400
Gasmasks and cans, not even a whole matching set is 375+
What is the norm for these items when prices shift by hundreds of dollars?
We aren't doing them any favors by selling stuff here at basically market value either. This hobby will implode like CW and when older guys go to sell their stuff, they will find there's no one to sell it to. They will wonder why, when the answer is right in front of them. Everyone younger than them does not have the ridiculous funds required to reach the same point in the hobby as someone who started collecting in the "pre 2000's" so no new collectors will exist to sell to. The same people who say "stay in your lane for what you can afford" will soon realize that means there is no one left but them.

 

[Aaron]

Excellent responses all. The thing is I have heard the current situation being discussed by collectors a few times before, over the course of the last 40 years. Periods of price increases and declines seem to be cyclical. This is often due to supply and demand issues or tied to either a economic upturn or downturn. One must also consider the "political winds" during these times as well...which we have observed most recently in 2008 and again in 2020. Perhaps most frustrating in this current environment, there is more information available to the novice collector than ever before. Excellent books have been written, which were always sought out by the collecting fraternity. However, now we have online forums and other platforms. Online videos are also available (albeit a number of these are questionable in their assessments or just self-serving advertisements for the hosts). One troublesome report is that a sizeable contingent of young people (starting with the "Millennials") just do not like to read books. They resort to getting their information via the internet and seem to take things for granted.

Walk this path and you are bound to get fleeced. Everyone pays a certain amount of dues in their quest for enlightenment as a collector, but some are just destined to pay a lot more than others. Lastly, there is a degree of "instant wealth" in recent decades. All one has to do is come up with their own "Pet Rock" idea (remember this one!) and you can be a millionaire. I think there are a few of these types running loose as well, which is skewing the norm as to some of the outrageous sales prices seen recently. Just remember, fools and their money are soon parted. In regards to Bruce's mention of the term "Dealerization", this is also becoming a bigger factor. "Collector/dealers" have long been around and there is bit of this in most all of us. However, now it seems the emphasis is on a number of "DEALER/collectors". These guys are mercenary in their approach to acquire anything or everything they can to make a buck on. Some range from coast to coast now in their search. Finally, the nature of large, well advertised nationwide auctions, has been leading the charge on increasing prices for at least 20 years. Much of what we see now started here...

Your statement

"Perhaps most frustrating in this current environment, there is more information available to the novice collector than ever before. Excellent books have been written, which were always sought out by the collecting fraternity. However, now we have online forums and other platforms. Online videos are also available (albeit a number of these are questionable in their assessments or just self-serving advertisements for the hosts). One troublesome report is that a sizeable contingent of young people (starting with the "Millennials") just do not like to read books. They resort to getting their information via the internet and seem to take things for granted."

is frankly absurd.

Younger collecters have overwhelmingly been utilizing the internet forums for the same reason they can't buy the items they research. Books have their own dealerization problems, you can't learn shite when you have to fork out 800 bucks to some crusty boomer that bought 10 copies of the same book for 40 bucks you need to research basic items. ALL the younger collectors I know have massive libraries of books for items they don't even collect because they know that if they don't buy a book when it comes out they never will find it again. They do not take anything for granted, most of them are pissed all the time because they have to fight tooth and nail to get any information or scraps of collections that doesn't come with a massive pricetag.

People are bowing out of the hobby quicker than they are joining, and soon the people who fucked it over for short term gains will feel the sting of their retirement plan being worth nothing because there is no one left who can afford to be remotely interested.

 

[grimlin13]

When each S84/98 III I have will sell for $500 (or more), I may have a hard time not selling them. I started collecting Ks98 (dress) bayonets as a fix for when I was not able to find any S84/98 III I liked or needed a few years ago. The asking prices for them has gone up a little since I started collecting them, but nothing like the S84/98 III. When that first Bayonet sold for over $1000 last year, the "get rich quick" guys on ebay relisted their wares. That increase has dribbled over to most of the online dealer sites.
The type I and type II S84/98 bayonets are also on the rise. Accessories (i.e. knots and frogs etc.) are on the upswing but may be leveling out now.
There will always be the guy who wants to retire from the sale of his one S84/98 III or Ks98 that he picked up at a yard sale for less than a 1/4th of what he is asking for it. And if the new generation of collectors have the money, they will buy it, along with the sellers embellishment of it being Hitler`s personal SS bodyguard`s bayonet.

 

[bruce98k]

When that first Bayonet sold for over $1000 last year, the "get rich quick" guys on ebay relisted their wares. That increase has dribbled over to most of the online dealer sites.

That says it all.

 

[mauser99]

This goes back to being a victim of your own success.. Well informed interest breeds interest. Look at the k98k market.. Some guys have just given up looking not due to price but , due to finding collectable or what we deem collectable examples.. As I tell people all the time when I look at stuff.. " The purist will pay" meaning the upper tier buyers will pay the market or over market prices for items that are 100% correct un-touched and high condition. Next level has a huge I mean huge drop off.. That's why you'll see a matching k98k bayonet sell for record numbers and a mismatch in the same condition same maker sell for less than 100 of you can even find a buyer.. Very few higher end collectors will settle.. They will wait for the right item and when it shows up they don't mind overpaying. This is my observation over many years of doing this stuff..

The trickle down effect of what was said above is true.. We all baulked at the ebay insanity and then it trickles down to dealers.. Ebay and the web have always been a blessing and a curse.. You cant have it both ways..

 

[stuckus]

A consequence of the top-dollar, retail-plus buyers of the really good stuff is that some of the owners and sellers of the not-so-good stuff price their stuff at the high-end, thinking somebody will pay it, or that their stuff is actually worth that much. A lot of people seem to value their items at the highest price (asking, not selling) they can find on the internet. It may seem natural of some to assume that if a 100% like-new bayonet is worth $1000, then one in half as good condition is worth $500 or more.

 

[pwcosol]

Your statement
"Perhaps most frustrating in this current environment, there is more information available to the novice collector than ever before. Excellent books have been written, which were always sought out by the collecting fraternity. However, now we have online forums and other platforms. Online videos are also available (albeit a number of these are questionable in their assessments or just self-serving advertisements for the hosts). One troublesome report is that a sizeable contingent of young people (starting with the "Millennials") just do not like to read books. They resort to getting their information via the internet and seem to take things for granted."
is frankly absurd.

My point is some of these guys are "instant collectors". They get out ahead of themselves by not taking enough time to study what they are interested in acquiring. Perhaps they get caught up in a auction environment and in their zeal to prevail, spend way too much. As for my statement being absurd, in reading your comments, I find your attitude and demeanor to be absurd:
"...you can't learn shite when you have to fork out 800 bucks to some crusty boomer..." and "People are bowing out of the hobby quicker than they are joining, and soon the people who fucked it over for short term gains will feel the sting of their retirement plan being worth nothing because there is no one left who can afford to be remotely interested.".
Also I noticed at the bottom of your post this: "24, have been collecting for six years."
In your eminent wisdom of being a collector for a whole six years, IMHO you do not have enough T.I. (Time In)...both in life experience and as a collector, to even begin to think you know it all. I agree it is like swimming in shark-infested waters today. What I think your not seeing is the bigger picture. We collectors are basically caretakers for those artifacts we enjoy researching and possessing. However, the time is coming when we evil, "crusty boomers" will be passing the torch (in the form of our lifetime acquisitions) onto others whom hopefully will appreciate them as we have. I have a number of items in my own collection that came directly from those whom came before. Several of those guys are no longer with us. I didn't cry and stomp my feet because I could not get this or that which I wanted NOW. There is a saying that "All comes to he who waits". Stand in line and wait in turn...just like the rest of us have done...