Kar 98 AZ Police Sniper

[Jsne]

Hi all

I know somebody dont think this even exist.

But is it posible that some of this rifles can bee build local by different policeforce in the Weimar republic?

Reason too ask is one are for sale in our historical shooting Club.

It belonged to a old menber who sadly are past away.

Now his son want to sell his rifles. Include one of these rifles.

I have seen the rifle some times over the years buy never seen him shoot it.
Too me it have always seen to be original but I did not know what it was. I want to take an extra look at this rifle. So what to look fore?

This old member do not have any special rifles and have never clamed that this rifles should bee anything special. Exept that hee have own for some years.

Price asked are not high at all.

JSNE

 

[Absolut]

Post pictures of it.

 

[Jsne]

I will if I can get some
But I need a little info before I go to look at it

 

[Amberg]

Next to nothing is known about Police sniper rifles.
They had some Köhler scopes with SSR mounted on the K98k.
Before that, they had some scoped rifles in their armored vehicles. What rifle? I don't know.
In the late 1920's they ordered some (6) K98b with Zielvier scopes.
I did not come across any scoped K98(AZ) or documents about it.
Photos would be most helpful.

Thanks
Wolfgang

 

[Jsne]

Hi all

Here are pictures from the seller

Thats all for now

As far I can see it is a Danzig made rifle. Early without grasping groves.
Rear sling atachment ? should it not goo through the stock?

Bold handel?

No scope marking visible on this fotos. But can bee on top.
Scope mount looks right too me.

Price asked around : $ 950

Hope for any input before I contact the seller.

JSNE

 

[Absolut]

Looks like a typical hunter conversion (and therefore nothing military or police). It is a Suhler Claw mount. I would not dare shooting with it - it is the small ring Mauser action which therefore has less safety, additionally it has had a scope base dovetailed into the receiver.

 

[Amberg]

I totally agree with "Absolut".
The scope seems to be a prewar Goerz Certar 4.5x.
But there is a stamp on the left receiver I would like to see a close up of.
Thanks

 

[Jsne]

Hello Amberg

Hope this will do?

 

[Amberg]

Most intersting! Thanks.
I have no idea what that stamp represents.
Looks like "DK" or "IDK", or .... ? Neither makes sense.
If you have the chance to take some close ups showing the barrel markings or any other markings on the gun, it might be helpful.
Thanks
Wolfgang

 

[Jsne]

Hello Amberg

The Rifle is bought in Denmark
National letters for Denmark is DK
But i dont think it had something to do
With that.
Sorry but I dont get more pictures
Becouse I will pass on this one.
All the pictures are from sellers anounse.

But maby an other member in our historical
Shooting club will buy it.
If so I will ask if I can take some pictures.

By the way, the proof mark in front of serialnumber
Look Polish to me?
Or am I wrong?

Thanks to all who replies too my qestions

Jsne

 

[heavy10]

Proof marking is the standard Prussian eagle as one would expect on a Danzig produced rifle.

I agree with the no-shoot theory, there is not enough material left after milling out a dovetail on a 98a receiver to maintain a safety margin.

 

[Loewe]

I agree, I doubt the D/K represents a connection to Denmark, there is at least one other example known and it wasn't in Denmark or had an obvious Dane connection. This other rifle was scantily shown also, so not a lot is known about it, but it was property marked (1920) so there is an excellent chance this marking had something to do with the interwar (Republican era) period, which typically means police.

Until more of these are identified and trended little can be said about the marking, what is needed is the discovery of a fairly original rifle and its thorough examination. The discovery of one with an original stock would be best, but examination of the barrel could offer clues to a police connection (not always though).

As for the fireproof, it is typical Danzig style (latter period, 1917-1918), the receiver is Danzig/1918.

Hello Amberg

The Rifle is bought in Denmark
National letters for Denmark is DK
But i dont think it had something to do
With that.


By the way, the proof mark in front of serialnumber
Look Polish to me?
Or am I wrong?

 

[Jsne]

hi all

Even that I dicided to pass this rifle.

I could ask the seller if it is posible to
Let me take it apart and make a photo
Dokumentation
Will any of you guys will be interestet in that?

Jsne

 

[Amberg]

Any additional photos would be very much appreciated.
Thanks
Wolfgang

 

[Jsne]

Helo Amberg and others

I have talk to the seller
He said ok to let me take the rifle apart
An take pictures of all markings
So I wil do so.
In return He and I want to hear your opinion

If not interested pleace let me know.

Jsne

 

[Loewe]

It is a given (a certainty) that if more pictures are provided collectors will offer further opinions. The important thing is good pictures of the barreled receiver (probably the original barrel, but it is possible to establish a police connection if the barrel was replaced), also further markings on the right side of the receiver could offer clues to this D/K marking, though the best chance of answers would be found on the stock if original (original to the application of the D/K)

Anyway, post further pictures of the matching components, especially the barreled receiver and stock, and I will answer questions in regards to it's nature (characteristics) as a Kar.98a and its potential republican era context.

The inquiry or examination of its "sniper" status or authenticity is outside my specialty, - basically these 98a with optics are generally discounted as fabrications, things put together after the fact, by sportsmen or humpers. But there are several in European museums (which is hardly comforting - like all museums they have as much garbage as authentic), one in a Czech museum I believe, we use to see these occasionally... either on auction or on the forums, most were discredited in one way or another.

 

[Jsne]

Thank you Loewe

I shal do my best to discover any markings on this rifle

Jsne

 

[Jsne]

Hi again

Here are some picture.

No stock markings found. Some kind of light wood with stain. Nice work but made out of something els.
No matching bolt numbers. Handle brased on.

No scope mount markings.

So pictures of the rest:

Hope somebody can use it


JSNE

 

[Loewe]

I see nothing to suggest police service, though it is still quite possible it had served the police. Often the stock is the best clue to such a question. One would think that if this were some police arrangement, the conversion would have been done by either a commercial operation (commercial proofs) or a police ordnance staff. There is no signs of such acceptance or proofing.

Anyway, without the original stock (specifically the stocks markings) there is little one can say about this rifles history. There is little doubt the DK marking is from the Republican era, but the who, when and where are open to question and we can only speculate (baseless speculation at that)

 

[Ken T]

I would assume some Kar98AZ sniper rifles existed.Leutnant Ernest Junger mentioned using one in the book Storm of Steel.There was little doubt from his comments that he was using a scope sighted carbine.