Neat bnz4 handstamp S/42 G

[mrfarb]

I was going to shoot some photos of this, but my camera died after these 2 photos. Rather than wait, I'll post what i have for now. Recycled S/42 G reciever in the n block. All matching, bolt is an armorers spare numbered during production. Really neat rifle!

 

[erin_go_bragh]

Very cool. Really trips my trigger as a bnz guy.

Why no acceptance proof on top of the receiver?

 

[mrfarb]

Acceptance proofs on top of receiver disappear near the early bnz4 "b" blocks, and reappear in the late "q" block, so any blocks in between have no top acceptance proof. My own opinion was this is due to the bombing in Feb. 1944 and reestablishment of the production elsewhere.

 

[Hambone]

For someone like me that likes this kind of stuff this is about the "holy grail" of reworks/rebuilds/repairs. Simply a stunning piece Farb

 

[Loewe]

Mike, Can you do LR & RR shots? Like to see how the receiver is marked too? Stock too? (when your battery charges up, of course!)

 

[mrfarb]

Mike, Can you do LR & RR shots? Like to see how the receiver is marked too? Stock too? (when your battery charges up, of course!)

Of course, I'll do a full photo spread. RR is marked E/623, E/211 and K/167.

 

[stahlhelm1976]

Farb,

That is an awesome rifle...Like Ham I love the rebuild/reworked variants and this one is tops!

 

[Col.Klink]

That is one of the coolest K98s I've ever seen!

 

[mrfarb]

Added some more pics. Not the best, but you get the idea. It's got some wear and tear, but overall it's a nice rifle and very different from most bnz4 rifles you find. Check that stock/buttplate fit- I've seen some Steyr rifles in and around this range like that- perhaps desperate for stocks they were using rejected (oversanded) stocks? It's not sanded- I had a bnz45 like this once.

The "n" block was the transition range for unnumbered stocks, bands, floorplate, and safety, and this one is correct in that respect. Has Large Eagle small H as well, proper for this range.

 

[Loewe]

Bolt is damn cool too- tends to support the depot clearing theory you brought up on gunboards. The rapid dislocation of facilities in the east (when things collapsed, or were very fluid) must have caused a great need to move useful material?

Sending such material to Germany would have been of little value when those depots were probably glutted with work and lack of labor (they were combed for spare personal in the later periods- labor to assemble depot builds must have been at the top of the “can do without” list?). Better to send to powerhouses like Brno, or firms like Steyr that suffered a critical loss (Radom- where they were almost totally dependant for receivers, bolts and other key components)

Steyr in 1944 was such a diverse and critical company, rifles were practically an after thought. Steyr was critical in transportation (trucks), military vehicles, aircraft, and perhaps most important ball bearings. The small arms division seems to have been dispersed, to Radom in large measure, and its loss must have been keenly felt by late 1944.

Dispersal of the depot's material to a convenient facility like Brno, - great close location and sheltered, plus with massive capacity. And Steyr, also sheltered to a degree, and in such need must have made perfect sense at the time.

I am sure this scenario is not far off.

 

[Turbo Archie]

Giggity

..

 

[mrfarb]

SimsonSuhl, many armors spares went to Mauser as well, so your idea of sending the parts to larger manufacturers was indeed the case- remember, Mauser lost the FN plant at about the same time Steyr lost Radom- a nightmare for production. I think the bulk went to Brno and Mauser, with Steyr getting a share to hold them over during the Radom evacuation. For all we know some of the trains/material evacuated from that area included some depot material.

One can't forget that Herr Speer had control of manufacturing by this point, and moving production material around would have been his specialty I would think.

It is Giggity!

 

[pzjgr]

A few observations/questions....what points this rifle in the direction of a rebuild of a damaged rifle, versus the reclamation of a previously rejected receiver? Curious, as if it were a damaged rifle, why did they seemingly only re-use the receiver? I would've figured the fastidious Germans would have only replaced what needed to be replaced...

I was thinking a build on a previously rejected receiver from the standpoint of maybe Steyr had some excess production capability, and asked MO to send over any bins of rejected parts for possible re-use. I would expect there were many rejected early parts that might have been considered perfectly useable in 1944...rejected for cosmetic blemish/finish reasons as opposed to out of spec, or damaged parts...early production stuff was pretty close to commercial finish/quality....

Then another question, why is it that you really don't see many reclaimed/re-used rifles such as this? Given the meat grinder of the East, one would think there were a lot of battlefield salvaged rifles that would need some pretty extensive re-work/re-build, but you really don't see many that fit in those lines....

Regardless that is a real boner inducer.....

ETA Just noticed the very sloppy fit of the buttplate...kind of unusual too...

 

[RyanE]

Meh, I've seen better...

Why the hand stamping? Wouldn't the roll marking machine have been just as fast as a conscripted laborer with a hammer?

 

[mrfarb]

There is a narrow range of bnz4 rifles that show up using recycled receivers such as this and unused armorers spares- I believe the blocks are L, M, and N blocks. This corresponds with the relocation of the Radom facility from Poland to Austria, and these receivers were a stopgap measure to ensure continued production, at least that is the theory.

As to how you can tell it is reclaimed, the receiver had a serial number that has been ground off. As to where it came from, most likely from a depot in Poland that was evacuated in front of the advancing Russian Army. The Germans didn't just allow everything to get overrun and captured, especially important stores of weapons and ammunition (such as a large depot would have). If they could get it out, they did.

 

[Loewe]

For goodness sakes, you can see the fireproof and acceptance on this receiver. It was once a product of MO.

Receivers are THE critical aspect of any rifle- it was as Storz writes a critical bottleneck part that requires the most skilled work. Other parts are bottleneck parts too (bolts, tg were also bottleneck parts in WWI subcontracted out to state arsenals), but receivers are the most important part.

Essentially, you see this line of thought across the board- Astrawerke, ERMA, Walther, Radom all made receivers for others to assemble. WWI was much the same, Peiper and S&H made receivers for Spandau (and this was expanded in 1917-1918 with many receivers being sent to others to assemble, when German rationalization efforts came full circle), and in 1915 a very similar program was done in Suhl and Danzig using old receivers to pump up production.

In order to salvage rifles from a battlefield, you must own the field when the battle is over. Germany in 1943-45 increasingly did not hold the field.

A few observations/questions....what points this rifle in the direction of a rebuild of a damaged rifle, versus the reclamation of a previously rejected receiver? Curious, as if it were a damaged rifle, why did they seemingly only re-use the receiver? I would've figured the fastidious Germans would have only replaced what needed to be replaced...

I was thinking a build on a previously rejected receiver from the standpoint of maybe Steyr had some excess production capability, and asked MO to send over any bins of rejected parts for possible re-use. I would expect there were many rejected early parts that might have been considered perfectly useable in 1944...rejected for cosmetic blemish/finish reasons as opposed to out of spec, or damaged parts...early production stuff was pretty close to commercial finish/quality....

Then another question, why is it that you really don't see many reclaimed/re-used rifles such as this? Given the meat grinder of the East, one would think there were a lot of battlefield salvaged rifles that would need some pretty extensive re-work/re-build, but you really don't see many that fit in those lines....

Regardless that is a real boner inducer.....

ETA Just noticed the very sloppy fit of the buttplate...kind of unusual too...

 

[Loewe]

I agree L-N blocks are most common. When I wrote an article on this topic a couple years back, I did so with MattG help and he was of the same opinion. That the "L-N block" would have been the time of Radoms evacuation. (July 20 1944 the Jews were ordered deported to Auschwitz- or shot depending on conditions, this included those working in the armament factories)

You see a pattern, such as you can make out with such a small sampling, with the armorer spare receivers or diverted Astrawerke’s in the beginning (L block's mostly) and then old Gew.98 receivers and previously used more common M-N blocks. There are some flyers, but they are suspect, in the "o" block. Plus you have the no suffix jobs, and the SR etc.. much of which needs more study.

There is a narrow range of bnz4 rifles that show up using recycled receivers such as this and unused armorers spares- I believe the blocks are L, M, and N blocks. This corresponds with the relocation of the Radom facility from Poland to Austria, and these receivers were a stopgap measure to ensure continued production, at least that is the theory.

 

[pzjgr]

For goodness sakes, you can see the fireproof and acceptance on this receiver. It was once a product of MO.


In order to salvage rifles from a battlefield, you must own the field when the battle is over. Germany in 1943-45 increasingly did not hold the field.

Well, looking at the RR, I only saw the K167 Pre-WaA mark, and a single WaA, maybe the remnants or part of another. I would've thought you would see more of a line-up for a fully assembled rifle, but I am not up on the markings on these very early guns (I have a G date, I should check whats on mine....). I never doubted it was a MO receiver....I just wasn't sure what said it was definitely off a damaged, completed rifle...I guess the scrubbed s/n is a real tip off, but I didn't notice that.

Even though 43-45 were years of retreat, I would still think there would have been a fair number of salvaged rifles....enough that you would think you might see more (percentage wise) reclaimed/reworked rifles.

 

[Bigdibbs88]

Regardless that is a real boner inducer.....

agreed. sweet dual code.

 

[bruce98k]

S42g

The receiver acceptance stamps on the right side are consistent with other examples I have in my data base. The single WaA211 and K167 is common among several serial number blocks. The acceptance stamp patterns for 1935 production at Mauser is chaotic and thats putting it lightly as I have 6 or perhaps 7 different receiver acceptance stamp patterns logged for MO in 1935.