Odd/Unknown WaA81

[Ogtree]

Unfortunately, I no longer own this rifle. I thought that those of you who did not see it on
Gunboards might be interested.
The rifle is an S/237 (Berlin Luebecker Maschinenfabriken, later duv) made in 1937. It's only non-matching features are its floorplate, follower and cleaning rod.
Note the first WaA on the reciever's left side. As clearly as regular and high-resolution medical photography can determine that WaA is WaA81. I have never seen another WaA81. When I asked several people, including Claus Espeholt, none of them had seen it either.
I would love to know if there are any more of these out there. Who and where was WaA81?
This was the first of several lessons I have had in the last three years insisting that I examine every historic weapon in great detail. A prize P.38 I had owned for years (#02007) was obviously one of at least 1600 in its series. Its milled out "480" code made it one of 20+. Late last year I received an e-mail from a member of the P.38 Forum who had seen and bid on #02005, the earliest P.38 of this series, with a regular extractor and a rectangular firing pin. He asked if mine had numbers and strikes indicating that the slide and barrel were originally "HP" parts, Walther's commercial version of the P.38. I thought "NO WAY!" but said I would look. Under 10x magnification the barrel number was revealed to have original been "2077". The first "7" had been overstamped with a "0". I am 60 years old and my eyes are not what they once were for close-up viewing! 10x helps!
I then checked the slide and the inside flat had a dim but definite "77" stamped there. The slide and barrel had been manufactured and stamped to be part of a Walther "HP". Why Walther took parts from "HP" production and used them for a new series of P.38 for the Heer is a story I would like to hear. The haste of the effort is also indicated by unfinished milling on parts of the frame.
If you think #02007 is a mis-match I can assure you that its matching numbered grip panels, matching numbered spare mag (#02007+) and even superb finish would take care of your doubts. My point is that this pistol had been in my safe for 10 years. I had looked it over many times. But, I never did it as thoroughly as I should have.
The bnz41 #1752a shown in the sticky here for Steyr is another example. I had never noticed the Polish/Radom Arsenal assembly marks on the left side of the receiver and, of all places, on the bottom of the bolt handle. The rifle has many more E/77 parts than I would have ever expected for a rifle that early.
Look! There is no telling what you may find right in your own gunsafe!

Ogtree

 

[Loewe]

This was covered slightly on Gunboards, and as I posted there, e/81 is very often attributed to Simson Suhl. This waffenamt is seen on a rather narrow range, and can be found on many things- rear sight parts mostly but bolts, barrels etc..

It seems to disappear for awhile and then pop up on BLM in 1937 only (not regularly either but seen 3 BLM's with this marking- interestingly not always in the same places); also one S&S barrel re-utilized for a commercial rifle (1/45 build) but it is not clear when the e/81 was applied or when the barrel was made as the images suck. (barrel coding starts in 1936 for some firms, but the "G" & "K" codes are used by some mfg. In this case the code is not fully shown, but by style and manner, I would say 1935-1937 production.

Hard to say the extent of use, or even the range as I only know of 3 BLM's with the marking. (not like BLM/37 is common either, many documented do not show good angles), the location of the waffenamt and purpose isn''t clear either. 3 widely dispersed firms over a 7+ year period isn't much to go on.

Anyway, it is one of the waffenamts I track regularly, but unless we can find more rifles or collectors with your level of curiosity it is going to be awhile figuring them out. (unfortunately I have a lot of pics of this rifle, including the Dec/07 auction pics)

Keep an eye out for more e/81 sightings!

Note the first WaA on the reciever's left side. As clearly as regular and high-resolution medical photography can determine that WaA is WaA81. I have never seen another WaA81. When I asked several people, including Claus Espeholt, none of them had seen it either.
I would love to know if there are any more of these out there. Who and where was WaA81?
Ogtree

 

[Ogtree]

SimpsonSuhl,

Thank you for the first information on WaA81 I have ever heard. Logic would dictate that a manufacturer
of K98k receivers that early would have to have some experience. There is no "Spreewerk" for K98ks of
which I am aware.
What did you mean by your comment "..not always in the same places." ?
Thanks again for your reply!

Ogtree

 

[Loewe]

Yes, the discussions on such things are often hidden in other threads.. probably in some thread about the worth of the rc and mud wrestling.

Not sure what you mean by a Spreewerke of Kar98k? Is this in the new Spreewerke book?

Not in the same place means it was or is seen in different positions than just the RR, for example it is found in the stock on BLM/37.

SimpsonSuhl,

Thank you for the first information on WaA81 I have ever heard. Logic would dictate that a manufacturer
of K98k receivers that early would have to have some experience. There is no "Spreewerk" for K98ks of
which I am aware.
What did you mean by your comment "..not always in the same places." ?
Thanks again for your reply!

Ogtree

 

[Ogtree]

Thanks!
By "Spreewerk" I meant the setting up of a factory, de novo, to manufacture arms for the very first time.
That story is wonderfully told in the new book by Jan Balcar and Ron Clarin, the authors and P.38 experts, as well as by some 40 of the workers at Spreewerk during wartime P.38 manufacture there.
I will look at the sights, stocks, etc, now whenever I see a Berlin Luebecker product.

Ogtree

 

[Loewe]

I have not bought that book yet, though have had a glimpse at it. Interesting book from what I have seen.

Thanks

Thanks!
By "Spreewerk" I meant the setting up of a factory, de novo, to manufacture arms for the very first time.
That story is wonderfully told in the new book by Jan Balcar and Ron Clarin, the authors and P.38 experts, as well as by some 40 of the workers at Spreewerk during wartime P.38 manufacture there.
I will look at the sights, stocks, etc, now whenever I see a Berlin Luebecker product.

Ogtree

 

[Ogtree]

SimpsonSuhl,

The book is WELL worth the money. The work started as a gathering of knowledge on Spreewerk (cyq) P.38s. After years of research the book became a history of the Plant. There is even a section on the Spreewerk Volksturm rifles.

Ogtree