Possible SS contract 1944 Steyr BNZ

[DrakeDoc]

Short backstory: 20 years ago my father paid $200 at a silver shop for my Kar98k as a Christmas present so I could start reenacting. After he purchased it, we were told by a collector friend that it was a fairly rare, unmolested SS contract rifle that was made in a concentration camp. I wasn't too sold on that story, but some more study in recent years leads me to believe there might be some truth to that to some extent.

This rifle has sat, lightly oiled, in a safe for those 20 years because I was afraid to use it at reenactments if it was actually a rare example. I typically fire all of my collection live, but this rifle was never included in that because of what I was told all of those years ago.

So now I bring it before ye experts (or at least people who know more about it than I do) with the hope of documentation and to get an understanding of value in today's market, though I have absolutely no intention to sell anytime soon.

I have what seems to be a mostly numbers matching 1944 Steyr bnz single rune SS contract rifle. I can also see that the follower/magazine plate is Mauser Oberndorf, but I'm fairly lost on the meaning of a lot of these markings.

I can also take more/clearer pictures of any parts necessary. I used to have pictures of the parts under the wood, but I'll have to strip it and retake those if necessary.

 

[DrakeDoc]

I forgot to add the stock eagle stamp, and the cup plate with no discernable markings.

 

[heavy_mech]

Well a lot of this looks exactly correct. The 3 on the bolt root is correct for a Gusen (camp) made piece. Both bands numbered with the rear on the bottom as yours... also good. TG unnumbered and numbered FP is all good including the combo, stamped MO supplied TG and milled FP. No serial number suffix, no top final all still good.

 

[heavy_mech]

Also the bolt has only root and safety full serialed with shroud and cocking piece unmarked and that's another good sign. I see the stock is Heer marked, it's a Steyr 'small H' style and also correct for this time period.

 

[heavy_mech]

I just noticed this gun is in the SS contract serial number study.

SS Contract and Single Rune serial study

I'll probably hate myself for doing this, but I'm ready to redo the SS contract and Single rune study we had from Gunboards. HOWEVER, this one will be different- for this one, I will need this info : serial (and location) Code/year (large or small font), barrel code/ final waffenamt. If matched...

www.k98kforum.com

 

[biggymu]

Looks good! I agree with all the above. The extractor looks to have been replaced/ or salvaged. Is this stock/ hand guard internally numbered to match?
You shouldn’t be afraid to shoot this if you had a desire to do so. These rifles were built to take it.
As far as value goes, I wonder if anyone saw one at SOS for an up to date assessment. I’m guessing @ $4k?

 

[heavy_mech]

The extractor looks to have been replaced/ or salvaged. Is this stock/ hand guard internally numbered to match?

Yeah I saw the extractor too. Interested if the wood numbers match.

I wonder if anyone saw one at SOS for an up to date assessment. I’m guessing @ $4k?

Wow. I guess if the wood matches internally that would be pretty significant.

 

[biggymu]

It is missing at least one locking screw, the cleaning rod and rounded Steyr front sight hood.
Prices have been so crazy for SS stuff.
There is one on GB asking $3495 so perhaps @3k for this as it sits if wood matches?

 

[heavy_mech]

OP, I can see your rear sight ramp has the matching s/n. For maximum correctness the sight ladder should also have the full serial. No other parts were numbered.

 

[DrakeDoc]

Yeah I saw the extractor too. Interested if the wood numbers match.

Wow. I guess if the wood matches internally that would be pretty significant.

The wood is also marked 1931, so it matches.

I also included some other internal markings if any of you have any insight as to what they mean.

And thanks for the info thus far, I'm stoked that it's evidently real and unmolested!

 

[DrakeDoc]

OP, I can see your rear sight ramp has the matching s/n. For maximum correctness the sight ladder should also have the full serial. No other parts were numbered.

I thought that was in the initial posting, but I missed it.

Yes, it's matching:

 

[heavy_mech]

The wood is also marked 1931, so it matches.

I also included some other internal markings if any of you have any insight as to what they mean.

And thanks for the info thus far, I'm stoked that it's evidently real and unmolested!

Nice to see the wood matches. That a pretty big deal. The band spring is MO supplied piece (e/135). Those other marks are mostly called 'random glyphs' and just some production process stamps. Congrats! Is this gun new to you?

The reason I asked this (I saw you said 20 years in your 1st post) is that it's in the serial study. Perhaps the previous owner? Or from a sale or auction perhaps?

 

[DrakeDoc]

Nice to see the wood matches. That a pretty big deal. The band spring is MO supplied piece (e/135). Those other marks are mostly called 'random glyphs' and just some production process stamps. Congrats! Is this gun new to you?

The reason I asked this (I saw you said 20 years in your 1st post) is that it's in the serial study. Perhaps the previous owner? Or from a sale or auction perhaps?

I misunderstood and thought I was supposed to add it to the study, so I can remove that post if necessary.

To answer your question, it was new to me 20 years ago. My dad bought it in Ocala, Florida at Silver City jewelers, because my Uncle's girlfriend's dad owned the jewelry store that also sold militaria in the back corner. He received it in trade/payment for money or silver, so that's as far as I can trace it's journey. He evidently didn't know too much about it, even though his wife (my now Aunt's mother) is from Manheim and her uncle was an officer in the SS. My dad had the choice between this and a Sharps rifle, so he offered $200 and we ended up with it.

 

[flynaked]

Like HM said, it’s a Radom made receiver, which you can tell from the shape, without even looking below the wood line, but the (lot or die?) number whatever they happen to be on Polish receivers confirms it.

 

[heavy_mech]

I misunderstood and thought I was supposed to add it to the study, so I can remove that post if necessary.

To answer your question, it was new to me 20 years ago. My dad bought it in Ocala, Florida at Silver City jewelers, because my Uncle's girlfriend's dad owned the jewelry store that also sold militaria in the back corner. He received it in trade/payment for money or silver, so that's as far as I can trace it's journey. He evidently didn't know too much about it, even though his wife (my now Aunt's mother) is from Manheim and her uncle was an officer in the SS. My dad had the choice between this and a Sharps rifle, so he offered $200 and we ended up with it.

I'd leave that post. It's relevant because it's in that database AND it appears in the reference books. The pictures add visual confirmation to the specific traits at that period in the contract and that's also relevant IMHO.

 

[heavy_mech]

Like HM said, it’s a Radom made receiver, which you can tell from the shape, without even looking below the wood line, but the (lot or die?) number whatever they happen to be on Polish receivers confirms it.

Excellent point. The size and font of the bnz is pretty telling too. I wonder how close this was to the end at Radom?

 

[flynaked]

Yep the font of course too, where it gets tricky is, there are bnz45 marked receivers made by Radom, all the way through the T block. Why they bothered to scrub and remark them is curious since bnz44 coded receivers show up through 1945 also, with no effort at remarking them. That is unless, the Radom receivers seen in 1945 never made it to the point of being roll marked before leaving Poland.

 

[heavy_mech]

Yep the font of course too, where it gets tricky is, there are bnz45 marked receivers made by Radom, all the way through the T block. Why they bothered to scrub and remark them is curious since bnz44 coded receivers show up through 1945 also, with no effort at remarking them. That is unless, the Radom receivers seen in 1945 never made it to the point of being roll marked before leaving Poland.

I thought about this too and wonder if they never got roll marked there is the answer?

 

[heavy_mech]

I wonder how close this was to the end at Radom?

In an effort to answer my own question, I found the timeline contained in IIb useful. If the beginning of the use of Heer marked stocks is accurate, the details of OPs rifle would lead me to believe later in August '44.

 

[DrakeDoc]

In an effort to answer my own question, I found the timeline contained in IIb useful. If the beginning of the use of Heer marked stocks is accurate, the details of OPs rifle would lead me to believe later in August '44.

View attachment 384687

Would you say that the receiver on this example is hand stamped?

To be honest I'm in awe and fairly sad holding this in my hands, knowing that a Polish prisoner was forced to slave away on this rifle, and was most likely murdered sometime after doing so; It really puts it in perspective, especially after watching some videos/footage from Gusen.